New Mexico in Focus; 3; Aids; NMAS Participants

And you're rolling. So, Sprena, tell me about, do you use the needle exchange program? Are you? No, I do not use needle exchange. Okay. So, tell me about why you come to NMA AS, like what you do here, what you like about it here? I come to NMA AS because we have women's groups once a month and we learn about STDs, HIV, hepatitis, and I really come for the hepatitis classes because my mother has hepatitis and it gives me a lot of information, keeps me informed on how I could help her with her disease.

And why, with your mom having hepatitis, what has been hard about that? Can you kind of describe it? With my mom having hepatitis, it's hard because like she sleeps a lot. I have to watch out when she don't eat, I have to forge her to eat because then she won't eat. I have to just basically take care of her or she'll just keep getting sicker and sicker and she won't do nothing about it. It's a real struggle when you live with the parent who has hepatitis C. And what do you think, do you find that most people know a lot about it or when you're talking to friends or other people, like what do you think people really know about hepatitis C? I don't think a lot of people know much about hepatitis C. Just because there's not a lot of programs that introduce hepatitis C to our community and just bring it out into the community, like the outreach vans come out and talk about hepatitis HIV.

And not a lot of people know about it. It's hard when you're trying to take care of somebody like that and people don't know. And how did she, do you know how she contracted it? She got a hepatitis C from using a dirty needle. And does that make you worried? I mean, do you think that happens a lot? Yes, I think that hepatitis comes a lot from using dirty needles because when you're on the drug, you don't care about if it's clean or not. You just want to do your fix and get your high. You don't think about what's going to happen or what you could catch while you're doing it. And have you, like, have you helped your mom get involved with the needle exchange program? Well, actually, I have my mom on methadone clinic. My mom, she don't use no more. She's been clean for about two years.

And it's because we help her as in me and her kids. We keep her from using, we take her out of stressful situation. It's just really hard because we helped her quit. And we have to keep helping her to stay clean. And what do you think about needle exchange programs? Since your mom, like, I think the needle exchange is a good program, actually, because there's a lot of people out there who do use syringes for more than just heroin. They use it for cocaine and other drugs. It protects them as well as everybody else. Because, you know, they're getting clean needles and clean cotton and clean caps to use. And it's not dirty. So they're not going to give any disease to anybody else. It's a really good program. Did it help your mom out that program? Yeah, because as much as my mom probably hates that a minute, she probably has used the syringe exchange and just never told anybody about it. But I think it's kept her more safer.

And she knows where it is. So I'm pretty sure she has. And what else do you think about that? Do you think if she would have known about some sort of program and what I helped her from getting... Yes. Did you talk to her about that? Yeah, I think if my mom knew more about the syringe exchange program, she probably would have never gone hepatitis and we would never be dealing with her sickness right now. Because back then she didn't know nothing about it. Now she does and it's helping her out a lot more. And what's your favorite thing about coming here about the women's group? You guys seem like such a really tight punch. My favorite thing about coming to these women's groups is all the girls usually are the same girls and everybody knows each other. And everybody here is either addicted to drugs or past addicts and everybody could just relate to one another.

And it's really interesting, especially because I'm the youngest in the group. So it gives me more of an outlook on what they go through and it helps me want to stay clean and not go down that path. Have you ever gone down that path before? Yes. I was using for a while and I've been clean for four months. So thanks to these groups, it helps me stay even more aware of what's out there that I don't know that I've never even knew of. Congratulations on that. That's a big deal. Thank you. Did you ever use syringe exchange at all during those four months? No. I've never used syringe exchange in the four months. Did you ever share needles or were you using needles at all? No. But a lot of my friends do use needles. They still do it. And it just helps me. There's a place where you can get clean needles over here.

Thank you, you know, I want you to stay safe even though you're using. And what's the reaction when you offer them that? They kind of get surprised because they're like, why is she offering to help me and she don't do this? It's because I rather have them safe than sorry. And that's what the exchange program is being about. It's being about safety instead of getting her or hurting someone else. And are they usually like friends or people that you meet who might use it? Are they ever nervous about coming here or about? At first, they are nervous about coming to syringe exchange. But once they get used to it, they're like, okay, well, no one's going to judge me. Because that's a lot of people's first thought, well, they're going to judge me because I do this. And at the syringe exchange, they don't. They're just here to help you. And you think that's why it probably works because there isn't. I think that is why the syringe exchange program works because people who use are not afraid to come here.

They know they're not going to be judged or talked about. They're just getting help and they're showing us that, you know, they don't want to hurt nobody else. They want to keep themselves clean as well as keep the area around them for us for our children clean. That's great. I think that's really very good, very good. You're very well. You have a little bit more footage of you. Talk slowly. So what else are there so many people in there? Are there usually that many people in the group? Sometimes. Because when I came here before, there were like eight people or something like that. No, they just like started bringing out a lot more girls. And that's who that whole table of people is? Yeah, just three of them out of all of them is new. Oh, so it's usually pretty big, huh? Yeah. Is your mom going to do the interview today too? I wasn't sure if she said there were four people who were going to do it. Christine, me, Gloria, and my mom. Which one? Which one's Gloria?

Gloria's the one with the duck tail. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, because I remember that day I met you guys all, but I didn't get individual names too much of the barbecue and all of that. So you got a good group. Okay. So just tell me a little bit about why you come to NMAS and what you like about it here? Well, I come to NMAS for the women's group that's out here on the fourth Monday of every month. And it's open to all women. I come here because they teach us a lot about STDs, AIDS, a lot of women's issues. You know, this is the only place in town that I know of that you can come and, you know, feel comfortable and be able to talk about any problems that you have. And there is always somebody here to listen to you, you know. And I come here because I feel more comfortable, you know, being with other women that are in the same situation I'm in.

And what is that? Can you tell me a little bit about your situation and what kind of problems you like to come here to talk about? Well, my situation is I'm a single parent and I have five kids. I'm also a grandparent raising my grandson. And I'm also, you know, I'm also been a drug addict, you know. But I'm working on that and I've been clean over two years now. And a lot of the issues that, you know, that we talk about here, for instance, hepatitis C and, you know, all of that, that pertains to me because I, you know, I am hepatitis C positive, you know. And I want to make sure that, you know, I know everything about it, you know, because I, you know, I'm not the only one going through it. My family goes through it because everything that I deal with, you know, they have to deal with it also because they're there with me. But, you know, I feel very comfortable about talking to my counselor here about anything, you know.

And how, um, talking about that hepatitis C, that's part of what we're trying to talk about on the show, because there's just so many people who have it. And a lot of them don't know that they have it and some do, but they're not doing anything about it. Yeah. Kind of this big unspoken thing. Do you know how you got hepatitis C? I got hepatitis C by intravenous drug use. I've been a hepatitis C positive for almost 20 years. I don't know exactly when I got it, but I know it's been, you know, almost 20 years that I've had it. They do have things that you can go and get, you know, help for your hepatitis C, but it's an interferon medicine. But not a lot of people qualify, you know, if you're already in a depression medication, it's not good for you to get into the interferon, because it makes you more depressed. But, um, you know, just knowing what options are out there, you know, that helps out a lot.

You know, just knowing that I can get help if I need it, you know, that really does help. And here at the New Mexico aid services, they help you with all that. They have it hepatitis C groups, you know, for not only for the people that have it, but their friends and families, so they know what to do, what to expect, you know. That's what I like about it, I don't know. No, that's good, that's good. Um, congratulations by the way. Thank you. That's really great. Um, going back to when you were still using, can you kind of describe for us the, that scene for those of us who might not be familiar with it? Like, is needle sharing really common? Or were people with hepatitis C even something that people were really aware of? Like did people talk about it? Well, I guess when you're using, um, you probably think about it, but, you know, you're too busy trying to get high, so you don't really, you know, you really don't care about it at the time.

But, um, as far as, you, uh, sharing needles, I mean, almost everybody I knew shared needles, you know, a lot of people didn't know about the needle exchange. And now more people are being aware of it. And I know more and more places that are, that they're doing it. Uh, but when I was using the needle exchange wasn't really too common. And now, you know, there's, there's a lot of options, so there's no, there's no excuse for somebody that's going to be using drugs to be using dirty needles. You know, it's just because they're lazy to go get them. That's it. But there's even places that will come to you. So there is no excuse at all. And, um, what, from, from the user's point of view, what, like, what are some of their fears, you think, in coming to the needle exchange? Because that's one of the things we're trying to look at. Yeah, I think they're scared, because they don't want everybody to know that they use, you know? Um, I think basically that's it. You know, they're embarrassed, you know? But I would rather come and get help,

then get sick, you know? Because like me, for instance, I already have hepatitis C. You know, I get tested for AIDS every, every six months, six months to a year, because, you know, just because you never know what, what can be, you know? Just because I'm not using doesn't mean anything. Um, you always got to be safe, no matter what. And, um, I wish a lot more people that are intravenous drug users would, you know, if they take out just five minutes of their day just to go get a needle exchange, that would save more lives, you know? And, uh, they don't want to, because they want to get high right away. But, you know, if they really think about it, another five more minutes of your time, it can save your life, it can save anybody's life. Yeah, that is so true. It's kind of what we're trying to talk about, the show is kind of piloting, but it's okay to do it, and the people here aren't going to judge people. Yeah, like that.

I mean, I don't, I don't, it's not, it's not really that they tell you it's okay to do it, but, you know, they tell you if you're going to do it, at least do it safely. You know, protect yourself, protect others, because, I mean, you never know, a lot of people have families, you know? And they do their drugs, and they go home to their families. That their families don't know anything, you know? And they don't know, a husband can go home to a wife, that doesn't suspect anything, and get her sick, you know? Just because he wants to get high, you know? But, I just wish that more people would know about syringes change, and learn more about hepatitis C, because a lot of people are dying from hepatitis C. You know, just as many people that are dying from AIDS, people are dying from hepatitis C, just as much as AIDS. Did you, when back when, you were still involved, did you, did you know about a syringe exchange program at that time?

I did, and I'm enrolled, and you know, I did syringe exchange when I was using. But you still got hepatitis C. Yeah, we'll see, because I've had it for 20 years, and there was a syringe exchange when I started using. And I, you know, once, once I had already had it, is when I started using syringe exchange, because yeah, I have hepatitis C, but I'm still at risk of getting AIDS, or any other diseases, you know? So that's why I love syringe exchange. Does it make you nervous? Do you, do you worry about HIV? With your, having already had hepatitis C, do you, is that something that's kind of in the back of your brain? No, not really. I'm really at ease about it, because I do test, you know? And that's the number one thing that's testing. As long as I know that I'm testing, my things come out negative, and I don't put myself at risk, then I know I'm okay.

You know, I don't do the same things I used to. All my behaviors are different now. You know, I don't put myself at risk, because I have family that lead me and they love me. And what, like you're such a, I mean, you're such a good example of, like, having turned around those risks and that behavior, what helped you make that change? Like, what helped you turn that corner? Well, for me, it was my family. It was my family, you know? I'm a single parent. You know, I have five kids, and it's my family. They needed me, you know? I couldn't just give up on them. You know, I'm the one that brought them into this world. I'm the one that needs to take care of them, you know? Yeah, I messed up. I was using drugs, you know? But I picked myself up, and I just myself up, and I keep going. And I do what I got to do for my family and for myself. And that's why your daughter comes with you, too? Yeah. I bring my daughter here to NMAS, because I want her to know, you know, about the options, all the, you know,

all the subjects out there, the STDs, and all the way she can, you know, take care of herself so she don't get sick, you know? So she doesn't have to worry about it. She knows how to take care of herself. So that's why I bring her. And what does the road ahead look like for you, you think? I think the road ahead for us is going to be great, because, you know, everything that we need is out there. You know, you just got to go out there and get it. If you need strategic change, I mean, there's always one around you somewhere. You know, don't be afraid. You know, if you have hepatitis C, there's places that will help you, you know, to understand it more. And I know for us, the things will be better. You've been feeling okay with the hepatitis C? I feel weak, you know, little, but it's just something that I'm going to have to go through, you know? But I feel better because, you know, I do have hepatitis C,

but I've gotten, I took him precautionary, so I don't get hepatitis A or B, you know? So I'm okay. Good. That's good to hear. Is there anything you need? No, I think there's... I think there's some great questions. That's good. Yeah, that's really great. Okay, thank you. Yeah. So we heard Sabrina was saying that they're going to... You guys are going to call him Santiago. Yeah. He said Albert could talk to you. Yeah, that's what I thought. Well, I don't really... Well, I mean, Albert, the name is okay, because I don't like the guy, you know? Oh, the dad. Yeah, look. Something we're going to have to just deal with, you know? Albert's one of those funny names, because it's like... When I think of Albert, I think of like an older, like an old man, you know? Yeah. And to look at a little baby. Yeah, I see so that Albert. Right. That's right, we go. That's funny. Is that it? Yeah. Okay. Thank you. Okay. It's like 500 degrees in here. I'm sorry. That's fine. These lights get really hot. It's better to be first.

The last words is going to bake a lot. So, Christine, tell me about why you come here and what you find useful about the lemons group. Oh, I didn't... I'm sorry, before you start, I forgot to say one thing, which is... Okay. So, Christine, we're back. So, tell me about why you come here and what you like about it, and just tell me about this place. Okay. I'd like to come to these women's groups, because I learned a lot. We're able to ask questions, as far as HIV, hepatitis, STDs, just women's health in general, and also because sometimes some of the women come in with problems. And not just to do with STDs or this kind of stuff, we've all gotten to a point, because I've been coming for a while now. I think I've been involved with New Mexico AIDS for, like, about three years, I guess.

And we've... There's, like, two or three women that have come all the time when I'm here. So, we've gotten to a point where we're all, like, sisters. And we just kind of work out our own personal problems, not just, you know, with STDs or HIV or, you know, hepatitis. But I'd love to come, because every time I come, I learn something new, you know, about hepatitis, or its treatment, or HIV, or, you know, just, like, just right now, you know, we were in a group, and, you know, I was finding out some stuff about HPV, which is a human papaloma virus. You know, I was really worried about it. You know, just... I learned. And I love... I'm an avid believer in the saying that you're never told to learn. Because I do. Every day I learn something new. Yeah.

And some of those things that you listed off are you personally dealing with, and who was HIV or hepatitis? Hepatitis. Mm-hmm. I got hepatitis back in 1993, from actually borrowing a needle from a neighbor of Larson, which happened to be hep C positive and failed to let me know. And I got so sick I was in the hospital for a week. I thought I was going to die. It was really awful. And now, thank the Lord that they have this syringe exchange program because it's so much easier to be able to go and get new syringes without this. Do you have an insulin card? If you don't have an insulin card, you know, you can't give you any, you know. And it's not just about the syringes. They've got, you know, snacks in there. They've got antibiotics if you need them, you know, because sometimes you'll end up with an abscess

or something. And they're everywhere. Sometimes, you know, if they're not within your neighborhood, there's a van that's roaming that you can call and say, hey, you know, I'm right here. Can you, like, maybe swing by? And they will. You know, they'll swing by somewhere. You know, where, or closest to you anyway. And it's, to me, it's a blessing. And I hate to say it like that because it has nothing to do with God. But, I mean, when they came up with this thing, and then they give you this card where, you know, the cups can't hassle you. You know, as long as you have your card with you, if you've got a syringe with you that's new, they're not used. It doesn't have no residue in it. You know, okay, because the cup can't get you for a possession of paraphernalia. You know, which is great for me, you know. And I know. It's a better way, a healthier way. You know, if you can't stop doing drugs,

at least you can be careful. You know, and this helps you be careful. You know, because it takes away the risk of getting help seed like I did, you know, from having to borrow a syringe from somebody. Let's talk about, like, can you take us back to 1993 when you were, when you were using any bar that needed what? For those of us who, you know, who maybe don't know, can you tell us what that, what that scene is like and how common needle sharing is? Was? Was? And it still is, okay, at the time, I was living in a motel. My partner and I were living in a motel, right off the central. So there was drugs coming and going. You know, we're once step away from being homeless because we were in a motel. Drugs coming in out of the motel. And at that time, there wasn't a syringe exchange.

So you basically had to get by needles from either a diabetic that had needles by the boxes or you had to find a pharmacy that was cool, you know, about it, that would give them to you or share. And that was the awful part about it because you never knew and at the time, if you're sick enough, you're not going to care. You're not going to care. You know, and that's a sad part about it because I know a couple of people that have gotten contracted AIDS like that because they were so sick and couldn't find a van or just needed to get high, you know, and get well. And so they found a needle. And that's awful because if you, nowadays, nowadays, you got the van that'll come to you. And that's great.

That's great for people, like I said, you know, if you can't stay clean, at least you can be careful, you know? And that's, that was awful because I got so sick. I was so, so sick. I mean, I stayed in the hospital for a whole week when they diagnosed me with hep C. At first, they thought it was HIV because back in 1993, they didn't have, you know, the knowledge that they do now about HIV. So they were kind of telling me, I was going to die. Yeah, I was going to die. And so then they found that it was hep C. And still to this day, I don't see treatment for hepatitis C because I don't feel right now that I'm sick enough to get it because from what I understand, you go through all this whole procedure and makes you feel worse than what you already are.

And I have to deal with it the rest of my life. You know, if you can contract anything, HIV, hepatitis, from sharing a needle, you can deal with it the rest of your life. The rest of your life. There's times I wake up and I feel like I don't feel like doing anything. I'd have no energy. You know, my eyes turn yellow. My skin will turn yellow. You know, I'm just jaundice. And I feel like crap. And like I said, I'll have to deal with that the rest of my life. Do you worry about, do you still worry about HIV? Is that still a concern for you? Oh, definitely, definitely. But it's, it's not top priority now, like it used to be. Now I don't share needles because of this program. You know, because of this program, I can now

use a needle once and throw it away because there will always be somebody there. Or look ahead. You know, okay, I know this weekend, you know, say, for instance, you know, I might be getting high this weekend. So, let's prepare and go, you know, and get some for this coming weekend. You know, and that's not to say that I get high every day, which I don't, but, you know, there's still the urge, you know, right now, I'm pretty much gotten to a point where, yeah, I fall. Sometimes I fall, but I get back up, you know, and I dust off on, whereas before, I used to fall and stay down. I feel so guilty and so disgusted with myself, disappointed with myself that I stay down. Oh, well, he messed up, might as well keep going, and I don't do that anymore. What's that,

what's that light when you come in to exchange the needles? Can you, like, what does that, can you feel good when you come in? Yeah, I do, because there's no judgment. They don't judge you, they don't ask you questions, you know, or they don't give you this preach, you know, this sermon about, oh, you're going to go to hell, or why are you doing this? Look at you, make you feel worse than you already do about yourself. You know, they just, are you okay? Are you all right? Do you need anything? You know, is there anything we can do for you? And that's it. You know, it's a genuine concern, not just, you know, want to knock you down and condemn me for what you're doing. There's a genuine concern. Do you need anything? Can we help you with anything? And they just, you know, give you your exchange and let you go about your business. You know, there's no, you're, you're human. You may have some downfalls but you're human. And that's what they see. And that's what I love about it. But that being the case,

and there are these programs now, why do you think, why do you think sharing still goes on? I think needle sharing goes on for a few different reasons. One, it could be, like I said, you know, you might be in a situation where you're really sick and don't have any new needles. And when a person is that sick off of heroin, you know, you're coming down off of heroin or you need that next fix to get well, your body is so sick, physically sick, that you're not caring at that moment. You know, you're not caring. And that's not something that the syringe exchange can help. You know, unless they can give you a grip, you know, a bunch of syringes, but then they might go through them. And still, it might just happen

that they don't have any, so they'll go to the next, the nearest person, just to get well, and then once they get well, then they'll go, because at the minute, at that time, that point in time, they're so sick they can't even make it to the van. You know, until after they go, then they'll go get new ones. That, and I guess just plain lazyness. But other than that, there really is no reason, you know, why you should have to share, really. Do you ever wonder, do you ever think Christine, like, if there would have been this needle change program, back in 1993, if things might have turned out different? Oh, definitely. Oh, definitely. Because now, I utilize this program. I really use it. I, if back in 1993, if they had the syringe exchange, I wouldn't have been having to share a needle, you know, because at that time, I wasn't sick. Well, I was sick, but I would have had some prepared already. I would have had new ones already,

you know, so, yeah. I think it would have been, it would have made a big difference. It would have made a big, big difference, back then. Yeah. Just real quick, maybe, what types of drugs are out there? How accessible is it to get drugs, and the reality of drugs in the streets? Hmm. The reality of drugs in the street, it's a reality. It's real. It's as real as peanut butter and jelly. I mean, it's as accessible. You can get drugs just on what they call the track, which is on central, is so easy. You can just stand on the corner and not even be looking for it, and it'll come to you. You know, hey, are you looking? What are you looking for? You know, and people at street people that are out there are either going to ask you

if you need to score, and if you do what you want in a score, because they know if they score for you, they're going to get a piece off of whatever you, they score for you. So they're going to get high right along with you, so they're like, yeah, I could do it for you, and it's really, really easy. It's really, really easy to get drugs. And now here, there's majority of the time, and I'm talking, I mean, all drugs are bad, but the worst ones that are out there right now are meth, crack, crack's been around forever, and I,