American Experience; Stonewall Uprising; Interview with Yvonne Ritter, 2 of 2

In the bar did you tip it where did you typically sit did you order a drink? I didn't go there that often before I had been there a couple of times most of the times I went to like I said I'd go to private parties in the village that night I was sitting alongside the bar with my friends you know this is my front my friend Al my friend Kiki and he were the people who I hung out with Tommy hairdressers and and we seem to you know there's a lot of camaraderie and a lot of joking and a lot of camping that was going on and and it seemed like somebody was raining on a parade you know definitely someone was raining

on a parade and I think it was an election year that year and that's what there was a lot of discussion about that that's why they're doing this because it's an election year they wouldn't be bothering us if they wasn't an election going on so it felt like it was a definitely an invasion you know like like almost like being raped you know but then again you get used to it like I guess if you're you're you're considered second to class citizens you know you it's it's something that you get used to it's like you know people black people got used to being mistreated and and going to the back of the bus and I guess this was sort of our going to the back of the bus you know we weren't a lot of the gay people we're not allowed to ask the way they wanted to act in public you know they had to kind of kind of tone it down and and not do what other people were doing it's straight people doing

and uh did you what then what was it that made it feel okay or used to go on to the back of the bus what made it feel different when did you feel like okay tonight tonight I felt a little afterwards when I started hanging out after after the Stonewall I started feeling that you know that I had to like go to the I had to not do what I wanted to do I felt like you know like second-class citizen and not as good as other people because you know you you heard all of the of the newscasts about the Stonewall and then what took place after that and within the next couple of years it got better it got it got the people there was more acceptance there was there was it the Stonewall was something that kind of brought it to light and I guess sort of like the shot that was heard around the world you know I don't know if it's and a quote from somebody else but that's the way I felt about it that it was like something

something new that was going to start to take effect I'm sure that it had to take place there you know whatever whatever changes the the winds of change were we were starting then and there because people were starting to fight back and they weren't like you know we're sick and tired and we're not going to take it anymore you know that's just the way people you know we're that's the that's the feeling that I got from other people that night that they were that they were feeling like this is this is just about the we've just about had it the ultimate you know we're not going to take this anymore we're tired of you invading our space we're tired of you pushing us around and telling us how we we should act and not act so I mean there was a feeling that night that from different people and even even later on when I discussing with my friends what happened and what happened to you and where did you go and what what did you think you know I'm with what did I think I was

scared shedless but but there was there was this feeling that that it was going to be part of something really important you know even even even back then I felt that you know and as the years went on and especially when it gets around to the anniversary of the Stonewall different anniversaries the first anniversary I was you know there were there was the celebration too they were there they started a parade it was just small it wasn't quite as of scale that it is today but no I wasn't no I didn't do what you're saying that feeling of people saying I can't take it anymore I mean we've had it and we're fighting back yeah was it anger joy what was it a mixed a little bit of anger and pride in oneself and like it had to do with frustration anger there was mixed emotions that were coming out we were exploding of emotions into into the streets out of the closets and into the streets you know that was

kind of a champ that I heard people talking about you know later on and we know we're going to like we're sick and tired we're not going to take it any longer so sorry that's my alarm clock so when I'm home that's telling me that I usually I'd better get into the shower I start getting getting ready to go to work but that's yeah I work for I work for maybe I'm to 8 a.m. so so in terms of people telling you how to act how to move how to what to dress and where what was it worst during the day then night did you feel safe I felt safe we I did feel safer at night I felt that it was easier to go out at night and to party and

wear what you wanted to wear and even if you weren't wearing full feminine attire there was like the flaming attire was I used to my friends just to call it scare drags you you know cheese up the hair and put on the makeup and wear just boys clothes tight tight jeans jeans and during the day during the day you had to be a little bit more layback you know you couldn't actually I mean at least I I know people who did but usually those people my my friend Kiki and my friend Audrey used to Andy used to get really teased him unmercifully because Audrey lived in Bay Ridge and would wear these look looked like Barbara strives in even when she wasn't in drag you know at the hair teased up and the makeup and it was like I mean I remember we but during the day

sometimes when I when I finally got out of Brooklyn I moved into my apartment in Manhattan I used to wear like I used to paint for the gods to go for toilet paper and cat food you know it was amazing I would just just wear makeup just to go out in the in the in the daylight you know just to you know I don't know what I who I thought I was like you know where I thought I was going so made up and so dressed up we thought I was going to a grand ball to hide it June 27th 1969 and it was actually the the evening of the 20 it started on the evening of the 26th into the 27th and for the next couple of days the the things the you know the I always I hate the word riots the the insurrection or the rebellion was going on for the next couple of days and I

didn't and like the chicken and coward that it was I didn't come back for the next by the time when I got back to Brooklyn then the morning of the 27th you know and went home I was just kind of laying back and was trying to lay low for the next couple of days were you ever in going around even in the daylight where I could get your cap because people would would you make fun of you or if they if they if they didn't you know they'd snicker and make fun of you I don't know and if not they would they might throw a rocket you know or or something I mean I wasn't uncommon to be to be chased by local bullies or whoever so you know it's changed a lot since since then we've come a long way baby you

know but it's that commercial for Virginia Slims in the 70s kind of like always wrong true for me we've come a long way baby um anything yeah I know I think we're uh-huh talk to Katie um yeah just some details I'd love to know tell me about getting dressed that night you know exactly did that mean for you what you guys want to do in detail we we always did this we always did the same thing when we when we got dressed for that night we always did the same thing we had cocktails and we sat around and we dished and we put the makeup on and then the one this guy Tommy was our hairdresser and he would he would do my hair and he would do the do the put wigglets and pieces on he I at that that night I was wearing a wig I wasn't wearing my own hair so I mean it was there was uh so we did the same thing on we just it was kind of like the beginning of

our celebration our beginning of our night out started early we would start uh with the fun with the camaraderie and the fun with starter early we'd we would paint and put our you know that put our um I was wearing my mother's my mother's it was a it was a black and white cocktail dress there was empire wasted and and it fit it was a little shorter on me than it was on my mother which was not a bad thing for me then I liked mini skirts back because that was the age of the mini skirt so although it came mid-cafe on my mother I came like above me on me the nuns would not have been would have been happy with me and then that's a lot that's a lot of work you're doing it's all a lot of fun you we've done I mean how do you how do you feel you're going around all day long trying to stand in radar you know how do you feel when you're old dress that

night in particular that night in particular especially since it was a celebration of my birth that I felt I felt fabulous I just feel you know I I didn't think I could have been any prettier than that night you know although I had you know each time that each time I would go out with these people and these friends and my friend my friend Alicia and my friend Kiki would teach me how to make up and um each time I did it I felt better and better and more freeing and more liberating and and to realize that this was not the most acceptable thing in the world back then you know it's uh and it has changed since then you know and now it's for me I I don't get painted like I just for you know for every day and I don't get painted like that even just to go out I just I just put makeup on I mean since since I've just went to your old dress up I've never been to the stone I've been to the stone wall now

can you tell me like specifically as far as what happens would you not come to the door do you walk in like a regular place what does it look like you know oh god it's it's been a while I can't exactly remember that far back the the whole the entire you know what they're women's and men's bathrooms they were women's and men's bathrooms and some some bars had tea rooms which were for both men and women you know it's been it it's been a while since then I mean it's I'm stretching like I said my mother had all timers and I have some timers so sad my memory gets even they would check your idea physically touch I never I never saw that going on but I wouldn't be I wouldn't have surprised me at all I mean I know that they

checked they wanted you to to pull out your ID your identification you know and god help you if you had an ID like my like I like my ID Joseph Fritter my my my license you know no female cops came in that night I didn't see any female cops there that night there weren't a whole lot of female cops on the force back then either I think that's of something that's changed too did you ever when you were sitting in the wagon watching the commotion did the did impress you that you know the patrons of the and that young it did it did and a lot of the people who were a lot of the wrong words I'm sorry it wasn't to me it was impressive that that people were fighting back young people were fighting back people who were not even in the bar were fighting back the street transvestites and the people in the village who used to hang out and share it in square park were

fighting back and it what it it like I said it made me feel that this was the beginning of of something that was going to to take off like this like the civil rights and like and women's rights you know it was it was the beginning of beginning of the end of oppression for gay people and transgendered people so did you ever even can see if you really think about your life in the 60s meeting up to that like could you ever imagine that hey you know we should get together as a big group and fight for equal rights you I didn't it didn't occur to me that how oppressed the people really weren't until I started hanging out there and and when I started to hang out there all of a sudden like I'd seen like well hell broke loose and it started you know I didn't I wasn't I from what I hear from people who are older than me I didn't I ain't seen nothing you ain't seen nothing yet kid you know this is like this is mild compared to what it used to be like when I was growing up you know you didn't even have a bar like the stonewall you didn't even have

the you everything was private chush hush parties you know you couldn't you couldn't socialize with with gay people you know there were there were clubs that were that were not even you know did anyone growing up did people ever or institutions or nuns or teachers anybody ever tried convinced you were talked to you about yourself as being ill or sick or anything no I never I never was was you know my my father was me she used to shame me because because of my feminine actions the way I would I would act a lot of times I would be standing there with my hand on my hip and he would say to me keep standing like that I'm going to put you in a dress and I kept on saying oh yeah when I would I would say no I'd never say it out loud because I knew what I'd learned early on what not to say to people and you know I early on once I was at about five or six and I was at a New Year's Eve party at my grandmother's house and

something had gone on and I was crying that somebody took a toy away or I was crying and my uncle came up to me say big boys don't cry and I said but I'm not a boy I'm a girl and I got smacked across the room so and I knew I learned what not to say to people from from a very early age I knew where like you know later on that kind of slipped kind of slipped away and I got very very freeing with my mouth you know what happened if you were just like you know pretended to yourself lived alive you know stay in the closet I don't know I might have committed suicide I might have I might have I don't think I would have been been very happy at some point in time I would have realized it wasn't the right thing for me to to do to stay in the closet or to not go for this to gender reassignment surgery I think it would have been would have been being untrue to myself and eventually I probably would have

imploded you said you felt like you're a woman inside but you're going to a gave a gave bar well I I felt like a while I was going to it was the only place that I could be right what was sort of the relationship between you and the gay scene at the bar well it was I was more accepted for who I was at gay bars than I was outside and in other places I was allowed to at least express or act as feminine as I felt inside from early on I knew that I was I was female you know I didn't matter what you know what was what was there I mean I just felt female always and I can't explain it the the fact that the gay people were more accepting

of me and my feelings than you know and people who were transgendered even though the the transgendered movement was still kind of the low people on the totem pole back then but it was still something that was more accepted in the gay community than it was in the straight community so I found my solace and I found my you know with people who were you know gay and lesbians and gays because they were they were more understanding of of differences you know more does that make sense yeah so back when you were 17 18 what did you do during the day do you have a job when you're I'm both I felt stuck in trying to be a male yeah and then and a few few years prior to

17 15 15 16 I tried to definitely hide that you know I started into weightlifting and started doing masculine things and was say I was kind of embarrassing but I they talk about it now is like Mr. Teenage New York State where I was stirred runner up because I was I was on the weightlifting team in Midwood High School so so I I did try to try to pass for straight or whatever I mean I mean I I didn't know what at that point in adolescence it's such a such a trying time that you know you feel well maybe this isn't maybe what I was feeling all through my my childhood isn't right and maybe I you know it just didn't look right on me it didn't feel right on me you know I had I had a very self-destructive

not really a self-destructive period but I had struck to self-destructive moments once I had gotten to the point where I would build up physically I was downstairs in a in a place where my I used to work out and with weights and there was this there was the mirror there and I went upstairs and I started to grab a knife and started to cut it the cutting talking about cutting we were talking about cutting earlier but I started to cut up my arms because I didn't want that those on me I just I said what was I what was I thinking you know and at that point I decided once and for all I was gonna I mean I knew I had heard of people who were giving out hormones who had I had heard of doctors and I was I was in I was about 16 then or so 16 going on 17 kind of kind of got real skinny real quick you know lost a lot of weight lost a lot of the

the masks except for some it's still there there's all this stuff but who started the riots and you know do you have any opinion on that or who sort of was responsible for the for taking the risk and throwing the first rock and whatever I'm you know what first force I remember I can't quite remember I just know rocks were being thrown bricks were being thrown I I hear so many different stories from so many different people I I heard that it might have been someone who was outside of the bar one of the street transvestites who actually picked up the first someone said it was Marsha P. Johnson who started the whole thing you know this Sylvia Rivera was a person who was very active in in the Stonewall veterans who lived a good part of her life on the street but she but there but who knew who knows exactly I mean I it was it was it was like a

lot of melee and I didn't I wasn't quite sure who who but I'm I'm just glad that whoever did it did it you know I'm just glad that I was there and I'm glad that other people were there to you know to you know to realize that you know hey this isn't right some some way or other this is not right straight people I didn't I didn't I didn't meet them until later on I saw some of them later on I you know I would you know kind of did you ever join any of the bribery later on I did I was in the 20 a few of them before the 25th on 25th where they had a group of the Stonewall veterans they there was one of them that went that went up first Avenue on front of the the Yuan with the with the that was the the one of the last ones we belong to the Stonewall veterans association so the ones after 20 I

started to attend regularly so I it feels good being you know people with you know it's a how did it feel being back then it felt like it feels now it's it back then I didn't remember a whole lot of stuff I remember some of it but you know and they're people cheering and yeah it feels great that you're part of something that was that was history something that was part of change I mean that's that's about the best way that I can describe participating in the marches and participating in the activities and you know I'm very low key now I'm very much a home body into myself and even when like you know David and people David Carter asked to interview me for his book and other people had asked to interview me interview me for other things regarding the Stonewall I you know why me you know because I

happen to be there you know no I feel different I feel that I feel that there are a lot of people who are who support me and who in who I am and who are have the same experiences that I do especially since I have very close ties to the the gay and lesbian community center or not as close as I used to be but I used to do peer counseling for people of transgendered experience so okay I do I do recollect I mean I it's been a it's been a while but I do recollect it I did try to get to get out of the bar and I thought

that there might be a way out through one of the bathrooms in a window in the bathroom and when I when I got up to on the on the on the to get out on I stood on the toilet to get out to the window and somebody grabbed me by the leg and like tell me I wasn't going anywhere and pulled me out and then pushed me up against the wall with the other people and then we all are kind of heard it outside into the area where they were into the bar at first and to the wall did I think I believe as you come in it was to the right the wall to the right was the wall that led to the exit and we kind of were let out and I it's amazing how we can remember certain it's like I have a sense memory of how we went to the left to get to the there was a the wagon was parked over to the left and we were the few of the people that I was with were pushed over to the left you know I thought I could get out of the window and when I when I did

some a policeman grabbed me by the leg and said you ain't going nowhere you're not going any sorry you know I said oh god I was I was really I was right I got to say I mean as if as if it hasn't been expressed before I was scared I was young and I was scared but at the same time there was mixed emotions of like I said before too that this was going to be the start of something really big the interesting detail story if you tell it is what he pulled you out of the bathroom you put you segregated you I was put us yeah and and at that okay okay what happened who was then who pulled you in one of the policemen who was who was in the bar and when I when I was taken outside I was pushed over to the side of the wall with other people transgendered or drag queens and we were

taken aside from from the from the other patrons who were against the wall putting it sort of further back I don't know didn't I don't know with the locality matter as long as we were all together I imagine because we were not in the appropriate attire shall I say uh that there was something that we we might have been taken in booked which was the reason for putting people the the drag queens all in well at least the ones that I was with there was no didn't seem to be anyone on that little patty wagon that was not dressed as in female attire did you have any feeling from what it might have meant if you have been booked yeah I thought I was I thought I'd talk to sing sing forever now I was I I don't know I didn't even want to think about it if I had been arrested and and and booked and gone to jail I just couldn't imagine I was supposed to graduate

high school that week so there was there was this sense of foreboding and fear you know there was I can I can't I can't describe how frightened I was I mean it's just I mean it seems it seems long going far away but at that time I thought I was kind of I thought I would wet myself I mean it's amazing that I didn't except I was wearing my mother's dress and I think I'm throwing because it was I did when I did get out of the patrol wagon I kind of was walking through a little bit of a skirmishes and and pushing and there was people were throwing things so I picked up something I threw it because I I felt like you know this this pride in being part of something that would be like the equivalent of the civil rights marches and the civil rights riots that were taking place and I felt a very good feeling that that this was like I said the

beginning of the end of oppression yeah I know I was yeah they were cops but you know we were sick and tired of the cops and sick and tired of their oppression and you know at some point or other you have to just kind of you know we're sick and tired we're not gonna take it anymore you know we're just not gonna take it anymore you know leave us alone let us be who we are no matter who that is have some acceptance you know well