Joyce Chen's China

I'll see you in the next video, bye bye bye bye bye bye bye bye bye bye bye bye bye bye bye bye bye bye bye bye bye bye bye bye bye bye bye bye bye bye bye bye bye bye bye bye bye bye bye bye bye bye bye bye bye bye bye bye bye bye bye bye bye bye bye bye bye bye bye bye bye bye bye bye bye bye bye bye bye bye bye bye bye bye bye bye bye bye bye bye bye bye the following program is captioned for the hearing impaired. Hello, welcome.

My name is Joyce Chen. I'm having a special dinner for my friends Professor Jiang Kenneth Gabers of Harvard University and Mr. Edward Klein, following editor of Newsweek magazine and my children Helen and Steven, please join us. We are going to share with you the experiences our family had in China and because Mr. Gabers and Mr. Klein had also been there recently. We are going to compare our experiences with theirs. Joyce Chen left China in 1949 and settled in Cambridge, Massachusetts where her restaurant has become a landmark for Chinese culture and cuisine. In the summer of 1972 Mrs. Chen returned to China with her children Steven and Helen. Steven,

armed with a 16mm camera, captured the sounds and sights of China on film. For this, the first televised report of Chairman Mao's country brought back by a Chinese American family. Helen Chen kept the detailed family diary, the story of Joyce Chen's China. When my mother first told me she said she'd like to go to China now that one could travel to China and I thought to myself, well this is one trip I can't miss. I just have to go with her. So I told her, I said, you must take me. This is one trip I must go to with you because I felt very strongly that she held the key to all this marvelous information, all these stories, all these pictures I've seen, these old pictures and they just were pictures. I wanted to see what it was alive and she knew it all. When you apply for permission to go to China,

you must state in writing why you want to come. Here's my mother reading part of her letter of intent. I'm already over 50 years old. In China, we say the candle almost burning down. So I hope before I die, I will visit my homeland. Then I can come back, give a deep, truly report to the United States friends. And I hope the both country can understand more and then they also come building better friendship. This is the border line

between Hong Kong and the People's Republic of China. On this side is the Union Jack on the other, the Red Flag of China. The trains haven't changed much, but they are cleaner and much more organized. There is no class differentiation on Chinese trains. The only difference is whether you buy hard seat or a soft seat. The soft seats being more comfortable also cost a little more. Canton is the first stop for people coming from Hong Kong. I found it to be a very business like city. The Canton was a very famous port and I believe it is still. So it was very exciting to see Pearl River. We walked along the river and there were a lot of

Chinese out there sitting, chatting, smoking, a lot of bicycles and the trees are a lot of trees along the sidewalk and those were rustling in the breeze. Then we decided why not walk a little farther into the city. So we walked across the street and there were people sitting outside reading papers by the streetlight doing some hand laundry, playing in little cards. I noticed that a lot of people wearing these marvels looking plastic sandals. So I tried few on and I bought a pair I liked and a roll of toilet paper which we found that could be useful later on on the train. It was hot, muggy and Canton and we wanted to go to Shanghai as quick as possible. On the train they would have women announcers who spoke in beautiful Mandarin which is the national dialect in China now and she would give directions, please

be careful boarding the train, giving the time, time of different stops and all sorts of information that would be necessary for traveling on the train. She would say things like please don't put your hands out the window or your head out the window, make sense and then she also said mothers don't let your children wet the floor. We stopped fairly often on our train rides. For 15 minutes stop it was very easy to get right off the train and buy some Chinese food from the vendors. Each city had its own specialty. I loved

the delicious dry flaky cake. We were really surprised how good the food and the train and how reasonable the price. My son Steven's favorite beef with onions. Went for three of us only $50. When I got there at first it felt a little strange but then I realized this is not a strange country for me. It's my country and my people and my real relatives in the flesh not only photographs. Shanghai is a very large city. In fact I believe is the most populated city in the world and it's almost like a New York atmosphere. Everyone seemed very busy. They all had some place to go. The streets were always crowded. I

tried very hard to blend in with the crowd so I would walk in streets with the blue shirt and you know very blue pants and the white shirt but still there was something people kind of looking at me and I quickly look at their eyes and the thing they noticed with my was my leather shoes because usually people don't wear leather shoes. Then I caught on and luckily I brought a pair of sneakers which they call ping pong sneakers. In Shanghai many people would follow. Look at me. Very curious. A very curious way. Very innocent. I didn't wear my hair the same way. I didn't wear the same clothes. I didn't talk the same way. My aunt said you could try wearing your hair in pigtails. Don't wear any skirts. Don't wear bright colors. The pigtails worked fine when I went out.

I still remember all the streets in Shanghai from before but the most of the names have been changed. They used to be French and English and now they're all in Chinese. Every morning sharply at 7 .45 we'd hear... and the only thing I could think of at that time was I want to sleep. The loudspeaker would say, Chairman Mao

wants us all to exercise our bodies. We always had exercise at school but today there is more emphasis. Even the older people exercise. Everyone was very serious about it. Very old people as well as very young. Stretching their legs, touching their toes, walking, just breathing in the fresh morning air. Exercises are mandatory only for children. Older people do them because they like them and because Chairman Mao says they're good for you.

The most important thing is to keep your eyes open and keep your eyes open and keep your eyes open and keep your eyes open and keep your eyes open and keep your eyes open and keep your eyes open and keep your eyes open and keep your eyes open and keep your eyes open and keep your eyes open and keep your eyes open and keep your eyes open and keep your eyes open and keep your eyes open and keep your eyes open and keep your eyes open and keep your eyes open and keep your eyes open and keep your eyes open and keep your eyes open and keep your eyes open and keep your eyes open and keep your eyes open and keep your eyes open and keep your eyes open and keep your eyes open and keep your eyes open and keep your eyes open and keep your eyes open I went out with my cousin and she was taking me shopping and she held my hand and I felt very warm, very close to her and I felt not as a tourist word but I was home. My sister -in -law invited us for dinner when she brought out this dish she said everybody had some crab meat.

When we started to eat it, she began to laugh. She said, this is imitation. May the waste vegetables and eggs. The first time that my mother saw her sister, she was waiting downstairs and we took an elevator down and I was all excited because I had never seen her before and when the elevator door opened my mother walked out and my sister was there and she suddenly stood up and she looked at my mother and said, my, you've gained weight. In Sucao, one of the things we've visited is our fan factories and Sucao is very well known for the sandwich fans that they make. The people there told us that these sandwich fans have special qualities.

The very pleasant to look at, the fragrance is very nice and it's very lightweight and it's more of an artful type of fan making. There are many kinds of fans in China, feather fans, silk fans, fans from men, fans made of sandalwood and a bamboo. Many of the crafts that we saw like the fans were mainly for general export. On our trip, we also took a

Polaroid which we thought people would be very interested in and they were. They heard about it but they actually hadn't seen it and we would look up more towards the sun and the type of pictures they like to have more posed and then snap. You take the picture and then before you know it just you're engulfed with people you know pushing and shoving and you have a hard time pulling the film out and this camera also has the time of the beeps so everyone is quiet waiting for it. So beep and rip it off and people start pushing and shoving. Let me see it and this is so quick so fast. Oh look at the colors. As a little girl in China, we studied arithmetic history, Chinese brush writing, English and even English penmanship. Now they also studied English.

We went to the school six days a week. Now they have classes, five days and they work one day either on the farm or in the school factory. They're very happy to perform for us, very happy to show us their school and very proud. When I was growing up, women could not be independent. It was hard for women to find a good job. Now women are the same as a man. They are even in the army. One of the nursery schools, they were playing restaurant and they were chefs dressed up in chefs uniform, waiters and waitresses. And we noticed that

they really don't play princess kings but they stick to the everyday reality of life. I thought it'd be very nice to take some pictures of these children in the jungle gym and they're all laughing and saying, take a picture of me, take a picture of me. They're very friendly. They're not selfish and they're not shot. The position of women in China has changed greatly. Now, 90 % of the women work. Abortion is legal. The government encourages small families. Women don't change their names after marriage. There is a Chairman Mao quotation that goes, women are half the sky. Suchiao is famous for delicate

and broad daily. They used to do figurines and beautiful views. Now they also make goldfish that look like real ones. Where we saw them in broad cats and very thin fibers of silk, it would take them months to make one. And when you looked at it, it seemed so lifelike. It was unbelievable. In every factory that we went to, it was always a party member, a worker, and someone in management to show us around. October 1st in China is National Day, the equivalent to our July 4th. And at that time we were in Shanghai. We were never

told what we had to do or see, but it was suggested that we set aside National Day so that we could be shown all the celebration and the activities that were taking place. We didn't see any kind of military parade. They would help people from factories giving entertainment and high school students, everyone, actually would do some type of entertainment, free of charge. There were anti -American signs around, but my mother had noticed that they were being erased. They weren't Chinese,

so Stephen and I couldn't read them. But we did understand this pantomime with the American soldier. We were stunned. We had no idea they would put this kind of propaganda on the stage. As Americans, we felt very uncomfortable, but it was the only unpleasant experience of this kind we had there. While we were in Shanghai, I unfortunately caught a cold, and I had a very bad cough, which lasted a few weeks. Then my relatives said maybe you ought to see a doctor or else take some medicine. So I thought, well, maybe why didn't I try some Chinese medicine for a change? My mother went out and got some. I looked at the label and it said petrified horns. I was thinking, do your antler horns? Oh my goodness. Why not? So it said take five, every six hours. They were small tablets. They looked innocent enough, so I took them. Then my cough was still there, so decided maybe I ought to see a doctor just to get rid of it a little faster.

I went to the hospital and I was treated by a woman doctor, and she looked at me the Chinese way. I stuck at your tongue and took my pulse and my weight, and she gave me some medication, and I cleared it up right away. The nice thing about the Chinese hospital is that it only cost five cents. Acropensure felt like a big mosquito bite when the thin needles went in. The needles were put in the bottom of my heel and the side of my ankle. My heel did hurt a little bit because the skin is thick. The first time they were left in five minutes, and I could feel the electricity current jumping inside my foot. Then they pulled out the needle quickly, so I wouldn't feel anything.

When the treatment was over, I had no after in fact. In Shanghai, we went to a Louis Red Soldiers Club, which is a building complex almost, and each room would teach these Louis Red Soldiers, which were also boys and girls, how to sew, embroider, build rockets, paper cut, and we even saw them doing acupuncture under a doctor's supervision. I asked a friend of ours, what is a Louis Red Soldier, and how do you become a Louis Red Soldier? He told me, he spoke English, of course. He told me that to be a Louis Red Soldier, you have to be good, honest, and helpful. Also, it is the schoolmates who choose if you should become a Louis Red Soldier, not a

teacher. In Shanghai, we saw an acrobatic show. One interesting point we noticed was that there are no superstars. This group was called the Shanghai Acrobatic Troop, and these people would do more than one thing. We saw someone who was also doing acrobatics, and who also did impersonations as if bird calls or a train whistle, and they would also be stage hands. After the show, they would clean up. Heng Chao

is a resort town, it is a town where my father came from. I remember Heng Chao as a very beautiful place, with West Lake and the mountains. We saw many young couples because Heng Chao is well known as a honeymoon nurse, Haven. All the beautiful spots are still there. I enjoy it most, for its natural beauty, the West Lake, and of course delicious West Lake fish. We were in Heng Chao three days, and had this fish five times. In this area, they are very famous for their dragon well tea. I think this is the best green tea in China. We saw them harvesting sweet olive flower.

This is something my mother was very excited about, because she told us about it. She said, as soon as you walk into Heng Chao, you can smell the fragrance of these flowers. Sweet olive flowers are used to give flavor to food, just like we use vanilla. It was early in the morning, after one night on the train, that we had a pile of trash, so we carefully put in a nice plastic bag and tied it up on the top. Before we left, we heard people and stories of how clean China was, the streets were spotless. We wanted to respect their feeling of this, so my mother told me to give it to the attendant, and he will dispose of it properly. So I gave it to him, he was very kind, and he was walking near the window, and he just opened the window, and pushed out the window. And I was surprised,

because the things we hear about China, they're so clean, and then he said, oh don't worry, they'll pick it up later on. Peaking is a historical city, like Washington, D .C. People are encouraged to learn from the best, and since Peaking is the number one city, people have come up with a phrase, learn from Peaking. Behind Tian 'ai Meng Square, in Peaking, lies the Forbidden City. Forbidden City is filled with endless rooms. We went twice, and still didn't have enough time to visit the whole thing. The Forbidden City is

where the emperor lived. We went to the Great Wall, and just we got out of the car. My mother said, hey look, there's someone with a 16 -millimeter camera, and he was Chinese, and I went up to him, not knowing a single word of Chinese, and just took out my camera and showed to him. He was very interested, and then my mother came, and she started to talk to him. And we found out that he was from the Peaking TV station, and he was filming the Great Wall for them. But he's been there for two months, waiting for clouds to come by, so he was all prepared for cloud filters. But unlucky, it was a clear day. He said that he had some free time, and he would show us the Great Wall. I let him use my camera, and he shot all the footage of the Great Wall.

Stephen's favorite filmy experience was that of the children picking radishes. They seemed to have so much fun, mother and I, joined in too. One day a week, the children have an opportunity to go work in a farm, picking radishes, or doing other kinds of work, to teach them about labor, and what it's like to work with the land. There are many

different kinds of radishes, and they have many different uses. One of the most unusual is to carve them into flowers. They artist, as so scalable, it takes them just a few minutes to make one. The chef himself showed us how he made these carvings. His tools were very simple, kitchen knife, and a jackknife. He worked very swiftly, very shortly, and he made a American rose. Who I was a litre girl, we could buy these dough figures in the street, where we could also watch them be made. They were much, much rougher. There aren't very many people

now who can make dough figurines. We visited one old man, his daughter, and two apprentices. We asked the man if he would please move into the light. He got up, and then his apprentices noticed this and quickly came over, carried his chair for him, carried his tools, and moved it over, pushed the chair in so he could sit down comfortably, and then Steven started shooting. He was their teacher, and he was an elder, and they showed the same respect to other people they meet on the street. In Peking, we were fortunate enough to visit an open market. Outside, they had piles of beautiful vegetables. Some of the vegetables looked very interesting, because I'd never saw them before. I had to ask my

mother, what is this? The market in Peking is much more organized than before. There is no competition, because it is owned by the government. Most of the vegetables are grown in nearby farms or commune. Every day at the sender, they bring in fresh vegetables. They need raising tickets for certain things. For oil and anything made from cotton, rice and wheat flowers are also raised. Different amounts for men and women. In this market, they also sold prepared food. One counter, they had Chinese cold cuts prepared. And then on another, you could buy

pre -portioned ingredients. They had, for instance, one, they had mushy pork. They had the pork, all cut up, the egg, all the vegetables cut up. And then all you had to do was heat up the pan, put it all in and cook it. The Red Star Commune, near Peking, is probably the number one Commune of China. Again, people would say, follow Red Star Commune, because it's one of the best. It's quite a large Commune with many people, and it's very well organized too. They have housing for people. They have many things going on in the Commune. Also on our tour, we visited an old age home. These were

people who had no family, or their families were somewhere else, so there was no one to take care of them. Here they would talk and relax, and they would have one person who would cook for them. And they seemed very happy. People would walk around, and they would help each other. It was more a community feeling. The oldest person in that retirement home was 98, but she was still very active. My mother had the picture taking with the whole group of them, and they're all smiling with a cane in their hand. We were shown their Peking duck farm. Beautiful white Peking ducks. They look very much like white ducks you see in America. That's a secret of Peking duck. It's the spring water that they drink. That's what gives them the flavor. They showed us from the very beginning during incubation.

We saw the eggs. Our guide even pulled out a tray full of newly hatched chicks. Cutest things. Peking duck is the most famous duck in the world. It is a very special. There is a special way to prepare it. There is also a special way to serve it. Even a special way to eat it. This is Helen's favorite. Peking best. The best is chisness cooked with sugar. In America, I'm sort of on a perpetual diet, but in China, I decided to forget the whole thing just to enjoy myself. I had one special

favorite. It was called Peking Dust. I gorged myself on those. My mother and I both managed to gain ten pounds, but that didn't worry me too much because I was just enjoying myself. I had not seen my family for almost 25 years, but I recognized them right away. Of course, they are all getting older, so do I. I've never seen them, and they've never seen me, because I was born in Cambridge, Massachusetts. You've heard of these people, but you never really met them. As soon as the door opens, I see one of my aunts, and at first you see my strangers, and just within two days, we were like old friends who we knew each other for such a long time. On my mother's side, I had my sixth aunt, her husband, then I had my third aunt, my number

one uncle, and on my father's side, there was number six aunt, number five aunt, number one uncle, number one uncle's wife, and then all my cousins. Here, I am four years old, old dressed up in a new dress my godmother gave me for new years. My mother's hometown, Jadding, is not a tourist spot. Our visit was the highest point of our trip. We went because it's where my mother lived, and where her brother's grave is located. The day that we decided to go to see my uncle's grave, it started out as a very nice day, but as we approached the grave, it started to get very cloudy, and then it began to rain. And

when we got there, it surprised me because there was no marker, just a mound of earth, and on either side, some pine trees. My mother said, that's your uncle's grave, and she said, let's pay our respect. When he was study at the high school, he joined communist party. When have a bad year, and the farmers, they cannot pay for their rent, and say they have not enough food for themselves, and he organized them to fight. Somebody betrayed him, reported, so they caught him, and locked him up. I was only about ten years old, but I only remember grandfather, grandmother was so worried, everybody so upset about it, and I just remember grandmother said, I don't get him here to pick him, hurry, but it was too late. Then you're not here after two months,

for the hard time in the jail. Yes, in jail. And nothing came out from him, so they decided to execute him in the town. How did they do that? In the jail? Yeah, I think they carried him out, and to the town, and let everybody see it. A public execution. Yes, yes. Even though I knew how my brother had died, I was surprised to find he is now a mother and a national hero. The only sad moment for us was when we

finally had to say goodbye, and our relatives took us to the train station. We had their pictures taken in front of the station, with my brother, with my mother, with me, and then the conductor announced it was time to board, and that's when it seemed so sad to us, and I noticed my 71 -year -old uncle had tears in his eyes, and so did my aunt, and my second aunt, my third aunt, and my mother, and we all felt very touched, and no one said too much, because we knew how we felt inside, very sad to see each other leave. And then my mother broke the silence, and she said, why not? Let's say goodbye to the American way, and the Chinese are usually very reserved, and we don't hug, we don't kiss, but we did this time, and I hugged my uncle, and I hugged my aunt, and my cousins, and we hugged all around, Stephen, my mother, and then we did board the train, and we waved goodbye. It was very quiet

ride, and we're all deep in our thoughts, and I know we're all thinking the same thing. Their last words to us were, promise you'll come back soon. I thought your narration on the film was just fine, but I thought your camera worked incredible, it's just incredibly good, fine said that you could have a job with Newsweek, right? And, did you practice before? Only about five or six hours before I left, when my mother got the visa to go, then she said, you know, if you go, you have to take some movies. So, I came, so she made arrangements for me to come here to WGBH, and take quickie lessons. Oh, so I'm just wondering, if somebody tells me they have home movies to show, I always develop a terrible head ache or something, but these are really, these are really good. Well, my mother

helped direct it. I'm not a director. Yeah. I'm sorry, but you have the feeling, Joyce, you're much more familiar with this than, that there is back of this society, some more privileged bureaucratic or ruling class. Yeah, in China, you know, I feel right away, when I know what was before, as soon as we saw them, they don't need to talk to me, or something, I'd right away see the difference, but it seems, you know, the difference made, it's really wonderful thing happened. To China, because as China before, this crowd is like a dish of sand, and not organized at all, and also some say it's like a sleeping lion, and it didn't have anything. I wanted to ask one other question, though, you get the impression, or one knows, for example, in the Eastern European countries, that there is quite a large, bureaucratic community, quite a large government community. It's just somewhat privileged.

One doesn't see it in China. It's if, as I said, was saying after I got back, if it exists, it's certainly invisible. But you believe that there is such a privileged community associated with the apparatus of the government? Yeah, I think, maybe, would best demonstrate, answer your question, is that we do have a relative, who is a quite high officer? Oh, this is very interesting. Yeah. And he does have a, he lives in a complex, and they have special housing. Is this chung nang high, is where he lives? No, chung nang high, it's a trim and more lives. Yes. This is in a different complex. This is a, they are kind of high -level, and it's a compound. But how is how he lives? But it's a, it's a cement building, three, three stories with, you know, basement, and it's a duplex. But inside is very simple. He doesn't have any fancy furniture, you know, he would have the typical Chinese chair with a too big, arm rest. And one interesting point was,

he does have a, a maid, but they don't call her maid. They call her, my mother would probably know better. Yeah. Yeah, this kind of like, a friend, kind of like housekeeper. Yeah. This way. And also, actually she was in their family long before. And maybe even more than 20 years, with them. Oh, I see. Yes. And then what impressed me was, as soon as I arrived, she also heard so much about me. And the housekeeper said, my, my brother -in -law's brother, and they call him number two, Mr. because he is number two in the family. Say that, wants her to buy a multi, this multi, and she cannot find it. I had the same trouble. Yes. Trying to buy it, I couldn't find it anywhere. Oh, that was actually, combined in the friendship shop. And for overseas, or for for foreigners. I don't think you missed anything. It seems to me to be ready. Yes, please stop. I hope you don't

start serving it in your restaurant to enjoy some of it. I cannot get that many. I couldn't get close enough to drink it. And by the side, obviously that, you know, his children also work in factories. They don't have any special privileges to go to universities. I think they're more, you know, treated equally. Same thing. Same thing. You mentioned in the film that you were very interested in, the change in women's rights in China. Of course, there's been tremendous advancement there. But on the, at the same time, I wonder if there isn't a lot of pull of the past. In other words, if you found, a lot of male chauvinism still operating in China. I think older age, woman, kind of like a my sister, in law, or my sister, only one sister. And another one was in there, in far away in Mongolia. And then they were working. The others didn't ever work. But they don't need their time for their community, because they are educated.

Did you have any feeling that they were uneasy about this sudden, you know, this really almost traumatic transition from a very traditional role of women to one where, there is, well, considerably more, equality is between the sexes than in Massachusetts. Like, did you have, did you have any feeling that anybody, you know, was troubled by that transition? I don't think so, because many women were very suffering that time, because they cannot be independent. So sometimes why the husband has many wives. And so she cannot do anything about it, because a lot really didn't protect her. And also she cannot be independent. So not everybody is equal. So if the husband say, for in love

with other women, then she can say, okay, then you just go, because she still can live on her own. So that is a really kind of good feeling of it. I was surprised at how the officials, sometimes both the husband and the wife were officials, and how little they saw of each other. They eat their breakfast lunch and dinners at their own canteens, and sometimes not even go home to sleep that night, to sleep at their work. Yeah, that's true. But they all feel that it's important that the country is much more important. Well, it could be in many cases, it could be in many cases that are formula for a happy marriage. What about the women of your age? Did you have any chance? Do you have any feeling that you got on any terms of intimacy with any people of your generation? Well, with some of my cousins, we did talk quite a bit there. They asked me questions, for instance, about what girls wore here and about dating. But we didn't talk about

women's liberation. Now, what about the, this is a very good point. Harrison Salisbury was talking the other day about the terribly antiseptic relationships between the sexes in China. Do you have any feeling that that is resented in any degree by the young or is this something that is visible only to an outsider and doesn't exist in fact? I think it really is visible to us because, of course, I know a different, a different kind of relationship where they're free dating and meeting other sexes at a social level is more prominent. But over there, it's really accepted. Because they're not used to any other way, they don't know any other that it isn't something that they miss. I saw some handholding in Canton and I was absolutely shocked. I didn't. I saw two people in all my travels and I was going to report them to the authorities but I was,

I spent three days with a family in Canton. I was very impressed by how close they were because only what, five years ago, four years ago, these same young people were breaking up everything in China during the cultural revolution. But this young son in this family who had an opportunity to go to university was asked by his father not to go because his father had to take a trip someplace. He was going to be away for three months and he asked his son to stay in the family and his son gave up the opportunity to go to university for that reason. How did you come to be with a family? Well, I asked to spend some time with the family because I felt that what I had been seeing was all sort of model communes and model factories and things like that. And I wanted to get a little closer to the bone and they said, okay. That's this terribly unfortunate reputorial instinct which happily I'm free from. My impression is that if you haven't seen the beaten track you better see that first. And then you get off the beaten track. But I spoke to a

young fellow who had served in the People's Liberation Army and of course it's a very arduous thing to do. And I said, what was the hardest thing? He said, well, the hardest thing was working in the fields and planting the vegetables because in the Army they make their own vegetables and things. But I can't understand that because in high school every week you had to do that as training as part of your normal academic training. He said, oh, I didn't pay any attention to that when I was in high school. And I just wonder how much attention is paid to some of this. When it's young, we also basically, you know, when the children were passed by and the children were pulling the redses out and they just really play for and throw this to that and yelling to each other. And it's really had a good time. It's not really hard work. So in a way, let them know more about what other people was doing and also what other people are doing now. Can you really make a city, Chinese, understand what the life is like for a peasant in the countryside? Can they really,

that's what they're trying to do and I wonder if they can really do that? Yeah, they try. They try to put the city people and the more mingle with the people living in the country. And in other hand, they will be more educated in the country. By the way, there is, I take it one of the things in which there is agreement is that there is quite a wide gap in the living standards is between the cities and the country. The country is much poorer. And in a way, sometimes live in the country, even better than live in the city. Why is that? In a way, country farmers, as I understand, they have a land, they own their land. And the little bit is the... Private plots. Yeah, private. Yeah, that's why they're... and also their own house. But not in the city, as I understand. I think that the... I would think the statistics perhaps are against you on that choice, and this is one place where the... where even the Chinese would affirm the statistical evidence that the standard of living in the countryside is rather substantially below that in the cities. Last people, if they are talented, they don't have to worry about his income or his living

because he had been taken care of by the government anyway. So when the... before all the trouble, like a warlord, everything, they did the more damage in the country than in the city. That's why the country is really... it's almost empty, nothing, after they left. What's happened to all these former landlords and the people who own the beautiful rich houses on the western hills of Peking and things like that? Are they in good condition? Are they being treated decently? Or are they out of favor with the regime? Oh, depending who he is, what he is doing. That's what it is. I should not say who he is, what he is doing because of what he did before. Like one of my brother -in -law's brothers and he was a very rich man. He owns a factory, a very big factory. He offered his factory much before when Chairman Mao government took over. So then he is not a bad man. So he still respect. What does he do now? He is living in the nice compound in Peking.

He's retired. He's retired. Yes. He is kind of job like us, isn't it, here, I think. I was surprised to see on the pinkies of some of the officials, longer Peking nails, which is a sign of bourgeois, nice living if I've ever seen one. And I couldn't understand it. Here they were telling me about their dedication to being like everybody else. And they had these long Peking nails. What's a Peking nail? You know, you clean up your ear with it or scratch a stamp off an envelope? Yes. It's very hygienic. Laughing and they're so long and sometimes they have to use something to protect it. And as I heard about in the night, and it's very, very long ones, they have to soak in the hot water and rolling up so they sleep. And the next morning, I said, okay, fine now, here. Yeah, not many people, some people still like to do it

because they just literally scratch your ears. It's a beauty. And this way. But of course, it's not that only small ones now. The big ones are not suitable to use it. So they kind of work. That time, they don't have to work if they have money. But do you know, I noticed that along with these long fingernails came at times, not too often, but a very good cut of cloth and good tailoring for the tunic, which was the same as everybody else's tunic, but not much more nicely done. And other signs that going back to your question really are interesting. Is there a hidden bureaucratic elite? I wonder if this is an sign of such an elite, a sign of a group of people who live a little bit nicer than everybody else. That before or now. Now, I think maybe just a little bit, not so much different. Not like before,

say, you can go to hospital or he cannot go. He has no money. But now everybody is sick. They can go to hospital. They only pay ten cents RMB. And for a visit, that means about five cents. And you go here. So we went there a few times, too. They probably do have a little better life. But one thing is they don't have this life on the account of someone else's. So in other words, our uncle, our uncle's brother, he couldn't get malty. And he did have a car to his disposal, but he was very careful about using it. So he didn't take advantage of these things that he had. He did have a housekeeper, but it was like part of the family. And his wife went in the kitchen just as often as his housekeeper did. I watched an operation. I'm sure we all did. A lady had an ovarian cyst removed. There were about 30 of us. And I was the only non -overseased Chinese

watching this. And when it was all over, and her cyst was removed in 22 minutes under acupuncture and dysthesia, she applauded us. One of the overseas Chinese turned to me and said, that's better than the Chinese age bomb. Whatever defense you can enter for China, Joyce, you certainly can't enter any defense for this stuff. Because it's... That and the cigarettes. I actually quit smoking as a result of this. Yes. Here comes the fish. Oh, that's the first one. Put it over there. What's like fish? What is this sauce made out of? This sauce is a sugar and vinegar. And some soy sauce. This is a very light, sweetened sour. Should I help you? Sure, please go ahead and have some sauce and the pancake. And if I don't have a left toast to you and the cigarettes and the mustard. Was I wrong to eat before I had the toast? Oh, thank you. Can't be. That's what I thought. You see, we can't be bottom up for this. Just made it strong.

I'll make this last. I'll make this last. Funds for captioning this program were provided by the Bureau

of Education for the Handicapped, USOE. Thank you.