The Great Depression; Interview with George Stith. Part 2

[Slate clap] Maybe I ought to tell you how it started. The STFU started when there were two men in Marktree, one owned a pressing shop, the other one owned a service station. And farmers, sharecroppers and tenants, would usually hang around there when they wasn't doing nothing. Conditions got so bad they sat around and got to talking about it. And somebody says, we ought to do something about it, or there ought to be something done about it. So they started talking about it. Seven blacks, seven whites, five blacks got together and they organized. It wasn't called a union, they just got together, and decided to do something about it.

Now that's the way the STFU started. They finally decided the best thing to do was to go to Washington and get something done. They thought you could get something done in Washington. So they went and they were told to go to the Department of Agriculture. Wallace was Secretary of Agriculture. They went to the Department of Agriculture and they walked in and told them they want to see Mr. Wallace. You got an appointment? No. Well, you're going to have to have an appointment. Well, how do I get one? Well, you have to write in for an appointment and then we'll let you know when Mr. Wallace says you can come back. So they come out and they decide, well, somebody says, well, the best thing to do is pickett. So they start picketing and they start talking about arresting them. Then one man walked in and said, they are citizens, they can picket if they want to. Somebody come up and said, I'll tell you what you all need. You all need to go back and form a union. And they didn't hardly know what the word union meant. But after they got the details, they come back and started on it. When they started on it, that's why trouble started.

When the plantation owners found out the word union, and it all came back from John L. Lewis and the coal miners, they were afraid of the name union. They started to break up the union. And they'd go around and tell them, 'if you niggas want to do well, you all stay out of that union. that union'. work. They formed the N.I. And they would meet on a plantation in church houses. And the church house was on the plantation. So that's why the problem started. That's when the deputy sheriff, who was usually a plantation supervisor, started going in, arresting them, beating them up, taking them, out whipping them, turning them loose. But it just kept growing, because the conditions were so bad, working conditions were so bad. In that area, there was no money. They had what they called brosing. You got paid off in plantation money. The only place you could spend it was on the plantation. You couldn't spend it anywhere else. And they started work on the union, and it just kept growing and growing.

Now, how did you get involved in the union? How did you first hear about it? A friend of mine. He somehow had joined the union. I yet wasn't 21. I yet wasn't grown. He came by my house and said, George? I said, yes. Come on, go to the union to meet with me. I said, what's that? He said, it's something that will make it better for the working man, make our conditions better. We won't have to work so hard and get nothing. I said, yeah, I'll go. So I went. When I got there, they said, he can't come unless he's a member of the union. How much it cost to join? I don't know what it cost to join, but I paid 25 cents, and I didn't have any money, so he paid the 25 cents for me. And after I joined, that night when they broke up, he got up and moved that I'd be made secretary of that local, because I could read and write better than he could, and I never finished elementary school. So that was fun. But we started organizing that area. That was around cotton plant and howl and brinkley. That's the area.

And we started organizing that. But when we met at night, we were so afraid until we had watchmen out. There would be always three or four men depending on the size of the place where we met. Sometimes we met in homes, and they would be out watching to see if any strange person would come up, and they had a way of giving a signal. And if they did, we would be having us either Bible study class. If not that, we'd be playing a friendly card game. And that was no problem. That was all right. Sometimes, we would be having us a card game with some whiskey around. There's plenty of bootleg whiskey. So we'd have us a little whiskey sitting on a table and a card game, and that was fun to the plantation owner. Them niggers are just having a good time. No, pardon me, them niggers are having a good time down there. There ain't nothing going on, and they would go back, and we'd start our union meeting and go ahead with our business. So what would they say when they would come in?

I mean, they'd come in, and you'd sit down, and this is Bible study or the card game. What would they say to you? If it was a Bible study class, they'd turn around. If it was a Bible study class, they would turn around and walk out. If it was a card game, they'd stand there and watch for a while. And maybe if it was good moonshine whiskey, they'd take a drink or two. You niggers make sure you don't want to have no union going on around here. As long as you're all doing this, this is all right. They didn't know what we were really doing. They didn't know we were organizing the union. So in some cases, they helped us by saying, go ahead as long as you do what you do. OK, so, but the union was mixed up. It wasn't just black people. Well, no. It was black and white. Now, but the way the plantation was situated, most of the time you had what was called a white local and a black local because they were separated on the farm. But we had what they would call a district meeting, and we found a way to meet somewhere, even

though it was a violation of the state of Arkansas. But we gathered together as a group. We'd meet out in the woods, in parks, any place we could find. We'd meet together. We'd sing together. We'd eat together and pray together. They couldn't separate us. It was a violation at all, but they just couldn't. The conditions were the same. And the only difference was you were a white sharecropper and I was a black sharecropper. And they said to you, don't mix with them niggers. You're better than they are. But then they began to find out their condition was same as ours. We had what they called a split-term school. Negroes went to school when there was no cotton to chop or none to pick. The whites had a nine-month school term. But for the poor whites who were sharecroppers, it was a disadvantage to them because their children had to stay out just like we did and help chop and gather the crop so therefore they missed an education just like the blacks, the poor did.

So we finally wound up meeting together, even the violation of the law. But we met together anyhow. We got arrested. Some got beat. And we had some come up missing. There were some people joining the union. We don't ever know what come of it. We never seen or heard of them anymore. So we don't really know what happened to them. Was that common? I mean, was the threat of violence always present? Always present. The threat of violence was always present. They came in with shotguns and straps and pistols and they did what they figured it would take to do to break up the union. You want to know how lucky I was? I never got strapped one time. But I was a good runner. I knew how to stay out of the way. [noise] Now Now [noise] [noise] I want to I want you to tell me a little bit more about this about this black and white issue, the fact that the locals were

segregated. In terms of coming together, was there any discussion regarding the pros and cons of coming together as one under the STFU, or just how did you handle that? No, there was never no discussion. When they said, if he belonged to a union, they said, look, we're going to have a union meeting a district union meeting, over in the woods at such and such a place, everybody would be there. There was no question. There was no argument. There was no.... I sometimes, and I don't think the whites understood it, it was just something we felt we had to do, regardless to what the price of it was. So we did it. We would meet together, discuss our problems, and we'd finally wind up eating together. We always had some food, and we sat out, out there in the woods, or wherever we met. Sometimes we found a place where we could meet. In Cotton Plant, there was a little academy there. We always was able to meet at that academy, because the academy was for whites, but I think it was by a Presbyterian church. And whites were always allowed to go there.

So we'd go down and have our meeting in the Presbyterian church, and we'd always sit out and eat dinner together before we left. And we usually had a song. And I think you have a copy of it, the Roller Union on. That's what we usually wound up ending up the union with, the Roller Union on. And down in it, I guess you heard him say, if the plan is in the way, we're going to roll it over him. So we decided that's what we were going to do. [Interviewer] Now, the planners were always, were, the threat of violence from the planners was prevalent. What did you guys do about trying to defend yourselves from the planners? [George Stith] Run and hide. The planners were always prevalent, violent. But we'd always find a way to run, and hide. Either, as I told you once before, we'd be given a card game. Now, while we were integrating, it did wind up being a problem sometimes. We'd just separate, and everybody goes on separate ways.

Some got arrested, some got jailed. [Interviewer] Was there ever any thought or discussion at the meetings, or whatever, about fighting back and carrying your own weapon, and being able to try to defend yourselves? [George Stith] No. We decided to do it without violence. We didn't want to be known as a violent group of people. We wanted to do something to help the sharecropper and the tenant without being violent. No, we never decided to carry our own guns or nothing of the kind like that. Now, I'm not going to tell you some people come, didn't have them. I might have had one sometime. But the purpose wasn't to defend ourselves as a group with violence. No. We'd find a way to split up and go our own ways without violence. Some got arrested, some got jailed. But we still did. [clap board and off sound] Marker. We can begin. AAA ruled, through the government, that the best way we had too much cotton was to plow up,

I believe it was every third row. That was to the farmer. It was left to the farmer to share, to the sharecropper and tenant his part. The government did not give a part to the sharecropper. They gave it to the farmer. And if you were a farmer, if you were a sharecropper or a tenant, it was left to the farmer to give his share. They decided they didn't want to give it. This is when the union started working to try to make sure the sharecropper and the tenant got his share. And when they did, they started to move them off the plantation. We don't need them. We'll plow it up (?) But those who were left, this is what happened to us. The plow checks were sent to the plantation, to the county agent. They were first sent to the state office. The state office sent them to the county agent.

That's the way it was distributed. Then the county agent would notify the planter that the checks were there after they ruled. There was a ruling made that the sharecropper and tenant should have his part. So they would notify you. You come. They come and bring the checks. And the plantation owner would say, checks are here. Come up whatever day and sign up for them. Now, that's what he said, sign up for them. And you would go up and your check would be turned over and you sign it here. Okay. Now, we're going to take this and put it on your debt, you owe. You didn't know how much it was. You didn't look at it. (off camera sound, shuffling, "can we stop") Or did you get that? [interviewer] Start back again. Just pick up the momentum. We seem to be having camera problems here. It goes on for a little while.

[George Stith] I just forget what I said. [Interviewer] You said to break? [George Stith] No. [Interviewer] You don't have to say it exactly the same way. [George Stith] You didn't take no break back then? [off camera, interviewee]George Stith take six up. But we're in charge this time. [George Stith] Okay. [Interviewer] If we want to take a break, we can take a break. [George Stith] But I'm pretty tough. [Interviewer] I know you are. [laughter] [off camera remarks, mark, clap board, rewind sound] [George Stith] Concerning the AAA, when the government decided the best way to get rid of some of the cotton was to plow it up, they left it to the farmer to divide the sharecropper and tenants part with him.

But it didn't work out that way. Not very many of them divided anything. So when the government made a ruling that the sharecropper and tenant would have to have his part, they started getting rid of them on the farm. But now, when they got rid of them, some they kept, because they had to have somebody on the farm to work, but they couldn't get rid of all of them. Those that were left, they would send the check. The government sent a check to the state. The state would send it to each county, and the county agent would make sure the farmer got it, and it was left to the farmer to get the share cropper and tenant his part, so they didn't do it. So when they finally got a ruling there, they would have to be paid. They would send that check to the plantation owner. He would say, well, the government said, I got to pay you. I don't think I owe you, but I'm going to give it to you. You all come up, and your checks are here.

Come up, and he'd lay that check upside down, sign right here, and he'd sign your name and say, now you know you owe.. This will go on your debt. And he'd take the check and keep it, because he had got you to sign it. I refused to sign mine and stayed there three months. He sent for me to come up one day. He said, I got your check up here. I'll tell you what I'm going to do. I'm going to give it to you. You sign it, I'm going to give you your check. I'm going to pay you cash money, and you keep your mouth closed. Yeah, I did. [laugh] Not many people were getting money. So I mean, you know, that was a victory. But then we decided it wasn't fair for just a few, so we went all out. Then they started sending the check to you from the county agent by mail. It still comes through the county agent. They sent you your portion of the check. But we had a problem with that. Very few people had a mailing address. Couldn't get a post office box, so he got his mail at the commissary. So the bossman got the mail anyway.

He opened the check. If he decided to keep it, it wasn't a violation of a federal law. He kept the check. You come up and sign it again. So we had that problem to work on. We never did all together get it settled. But a lot of people began to get a rural outbox, whatever. And if it went to the post office in a small town— Well, a lot of times your post office was at your commissary's door. A lot of commissaries had the post office for their entire farm. Your mail went there. [Interviewer] Now tell me about the process of actually plowing the crop under. [George Stith] Well, the crop would be partially matured. Say, for instance, it would be bloomed and had some bolls on it. You go out there and you take your mules and plow it up. Now, the mule wouldn't walk the top of the row. He wasn't trained to walk on top of the row. And you put him up there, he wouldn't stay up there. So they had to take two mules, put them to what was called a middle buster,

and put the mules in the middle, and put the middle buster under the cotton to plow it up, because that mule would not stay on top of the row. He had been trained to walk in the middle. He would not walk on the top of cotton. So you had to use the same process to plow the cotton up. You used to plant it, two mules. Most of it plowed it up. [Interviewer] Now, this AAA ruling was part of FDR's New Deal legislation. What did you all think of FDR and his administration? [George Stith] Well, so far as FDR, I mean, all the people who knew about him, and so many people didn't know what a president of the United States was. They just knew the word. But the people who did know thought he was a wonderful man. He did do a lot to help the poor people. The poor people got a lot of help out of the things he did. So they were on the plantation. See, if you go from the Hoover days up to FDR, it was a great change.

So, in the eyesight of the sharecroppers and the tenants, he was a wonderful president. [Interviewer] And you said that he did a lot of things to help poor people? [George Stith] Yes, the things he did, did help them. [Interviewer] for instance..... [George Stith] I don't know if it was—like plowing up the cotton, which raised the price of cotton. See, cotton was so much, cotton raised, until the price of the cotton went down to nothing. So those who did get some money out of it—and we had some small owners in the black who joined the union, too, and we had some tenants who got money. On the big plantations, what a problem was, because they didn't know what a president was. I might tell you, black people weren't allowed to vote in the state of Arkansas then. Blacks didn't vote. So— [Interviewer] Are you saying that there was a law? There was a law. Blacks didn't vote in the state of Arkansas. You couldn't go to the polls and vote. No.

Then they come a law later, that if you were a landowner, if you own twenty acres of land out here and you paid your tax, then you could buy your poll tax to vote. That's the only way. If you were a sharecropper or a tenant, you couldn't buy a poll tax. You had no voting voice. That's right. You couldn't. [Interviewee] Now, with the large plantation owners abusing this AAA regulation, not paying some of you all, did you all feel like Roosevelt and the federal government could or should have done more about that? [George Stith] Yes, we did. We felt like it should have been a law that made it more fairly distributed. But the biggest of the blame went back to the Department of Agriculture, not back to Roosevelt. I believe I told you Wallace was Secretary of Agriculture, and everything was said, well, this is done through the Secretary of Agriculture. So the blame didn't really go to Roosevelt. He got the laws passed and it was left up to the Secretary of Agriculture to see that all this other part was hound. So it really went on the Secretary of Agriculture.

Wallace got a terrible blow from the people. You could name among the sharecroppers and tenants, Wallace, and nobody liked Wallace. Everybody hated him. But they didn't hate Roosevelt, no. [Interviewer] And you all didn't feel that because Wallace worked for Roosevelt, Roosevelt, didn't needed to make Wallace do what he was supposed to do? [George Stith] If you want to tell the truth, we didn't understand it. Nobody among the blacks, the sharecropper and tenant knew anything about government regulation and what was required. President Roosevelt did this. He went, carried us from what was called a hooverholes, which was a rabbit, up to where we didn't have to—things got better. So Roosevelt and I, and the side of the sharecropper and tenant, was a wonderful man. It was Wallace. Everything went to Wallace. I think Roosevelt said the Secretary of Labor, that's his job. And we didn't—all we knew, we didn't know the government,

we didn't know anything about Congress and senators making laws and regulations that ruled. No, we didn't know it. [Interviewer] Did you know anything about Senator Joe Robinson, who was a senator from Arkansas at that time? [George Stith] We knew he was up there. [Interviewer] And— [George Stith] We didn't vote. [Interviewer] How did people generally feel about him? [George Stith] Well, he's up there. He's a senator from Arkansas. He's doing his job. [Interviewer] But did you feel that he had your best interests at heart? [George Stith] No, not really. We didn't feel—in fact, we didn't feel like none of the senators and congressmen up there, even our own, had our best interests at heart. We felt like they represented the big farmer, and really he did, because that's why he got his vote. He didn't get a vote from blacks, so he didn't pay any attention. I went before the Senate Agriculture Committee sometime in the—I believe it maybe was the late 30s or early 40s, and I testified. And I told about the split-term schools in all the southern cotton-growing states. [Interviewer] We're out. End of the sound roll.