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I don't want to lose sight of personal growth and the social elements of our movement, but to talk about the contact on America, how to be a registered voter, this is exciting to me because I think this is the other piece we need for our movement. If you care about gay and lesbian issues and gay and lesbian equality and you want to make a difference in the struggle to bring about equality for gay and lesbian, the place to fight that battle is in the Republican Party. I'm worried about straight families. I don't really think it's going well for them and that's why they turn their attention to us because their own lives are so messed up. Welcome to This Way Out, the International Lesbian and Gay Radio Magazine. I'm Greg Gordon, Mother Nature can't reign on Sydney's gay parade, hilarity, Clintons take on family values and do oxymorons meet in log cabins, all that and more because you've discovered This Way Out.

I'm Cindy Friedman. And filling in for Brian Nunes, I'm John Bopre. With Newswrap, a summary of some of the news in or affecting the lesbian and gay community for the week ending March 4th, 1995, the 18th annual gay and lesbian Marty Grapp parade in Sydney, Australia on March 4th was billed as confronting controversial and colorful. And as it turned out, covered with copious condensation undeterred by torrential rains about 3 ,500 gays and lesbians navigated Oxford Street aboard almost 200 floats. But the weather was bad enough to reduce the number of spectators to 150 ,000 from last year's record, 350 ,000. Only two weeks before the event, Oxford Street was the site of a tragedy that may have been related to the parade.

And unidentified man was found murdered there and police believe he was a foreign tourist, possibly visiting Sydney to attend the Marty Grapp. Sydney gays and lesbians are concerned about a rise in homophobic violence there. Over the last five years, 22 gay men have been murdered in Australia, most in Sydney and most by youth gangs. A gay man from Nicaragua has been granted asylum in the US on grounds that he would suffer persecution at home for his sexual orientation. The man who wishes to remain unidentified left Nicaragua in 1987 after police arrested and detained him for talking with a gay friend. He says that during the detention, he was mocked by police and threatened with rape by other prisoners. Since 1992, in Nicaragua, a prison term of one to three years can result for anyone who induces, promotes, propagandizes or practices in scandalous form sexual intercourse between persons of the same sex. In Tampa, Florida, a ballot initiative to repeal civil rights protections for gays and

lesbians has been ordered off the ballot only a week before the scheduled vote. An earlier repeal initiative was passed by voters only to be thrown out by the Florida State Supreme Court. But this time, Hillsborough County Circuit Judge Manuel Menendez removed the measure from the ballot on a technicality, ruling that the City Council had exceeded its authority in changing the wording of the initiative in order to simplify it. The Virginia State Supreme Court heard arguments this week in the case of Sharon Bottoms, the lesbian mother whose son was given to her own mother by a circuit court. Although that initial decision was overturned by the Virginia Court of Appeals, K Bottoms regained custody of her grandson when she appealed to the State Supreme Court and will retain custody until the Supreme Court renders its decision. Sharon Bottoms' attorney said that her sexual orientation was the sole reason for the trial court's decision and pointed out that even murderers had not been deprived of custody without a showing of harm to the child. The grandmother's attorney said of Sharon Bottoms and her partner April Wade, they live a

lifestyle that this court has condemned as repugnant, immoral, and evil. Ironically, they also said that the court would be chipping away at family values if it allowed the mother to retain custody of her son. There's one win and one loss this week as two U .S. states respond to the possibility of legal marriage for same -gender couples in Hawaii. South Dakota is billed to prohibit same -gender marriages, which had passed in the State House by a four to one margin, met a different fate in the State Senate. It was returned to committee by a vote of 18 to 17 and died there, lacking enough votes to be returned to the floor. But in Utah, in the closing hours of the year's legislative session, the legislature passed a measure denying recognition to marriages performed in other states that do not meet the standards of Utah law. Still protesting homophobic rhetoric he believes has incited violence against

gays and lesbians, open gay reverend male white is still fasting in a Virginia jail cell. White was arrested for trespassing on February 15th at the headquarters of the Christian Broadcasting Network, where he'd hoped to meet his former employer, U .S. Televangelist Pat Robertson. White believes Robertson's verbal attacks on gays and lesbians encourage extremists to attack them physically. White turned down the chance to go free by refusing to sign a summons agreeing to appear in court on March 28th and not to return to CBN. He swears he'll remain in jail until Robertson condemns violence against gays and lesbians. White said he'd lost 13 pounds in two weeks. Hundreds of African -American and Latino, gay, lesbian and bisexual activists converged on Los Angeles in mid -February for the eighth annual black gay and lesbian leadership forum conference. This way, out's Ron Buttmeyer was there. Some 350 black and Latino queer activists from as far away as England and Ghana attended the black gay and lesbian leadership forum gathering

at the Los Angeles Airport Hilton over the February 17th through 19th weekend. This year's conference was quite different from the previous seven, especially in format. About a month before the event, the leadership forum announced that in light of the resurgence of conservatives after the 1994 U .S. Congressional and State White elections, the eighth annual conference would be changed to a black gay and lesbian leadership summit titled, Our Families, Our Communities, Our Lives. Phil Wilson, the founder of the leadership forum, explained a change from a conference to a summit. The Board of Directors decided that there was a need for a national summit, and so we are bringing in national black and lesbian leaders and friends and associates to talk about how our community needs to respond to the November elections. The format change was apparently a resounding success because of it, all the participants were able to focus on one clear topic, grassroots political organizing. One

whole day was devoted to analyzing the impact of the Republican contract with America on communities of color, especially in the area of AIDS services. By the end of the summit, a joint community was drafted, titled, A Call for Sustained Action, an Open Letter to Progressive Black Communities. In order to spark a dialogue on launching, a national progressive black lesbian bisexual transgendered gay movement. One of the notable black lesbian activists who attended this year's summit was Mandy Carter of the Human Rights Campaign Fund, who leads BGLF's campaign to counter the influence of the radical right in black communities. I asked her about this year's event. I've been to a number of leadership forms and this one is so specifically political that that's excited me. I don't want to lose sight of personal growth and the social elements of our movement, but to talk about the contact on America, how to be a registered voter. This is exciting to me because I think this is the other piece we need for our movement. That was Mandy Carter speaking about this year's black and lesbian leadership summit. For this way out in Los Angeles,

I'm Ron Buckmeyer. What are we doing here? On the one hand, we're kicking you out, on the other, we're giving you a medal. That's what Lieutenant Tracy Thorn quoted his commanding officer as saying this week at the ceremony where Thorn was awarded the Navy Achievement Medal. Thorn came out as a gay man on US national television in 1992 and is now on reserve, awaiting review of his discharge by the Secretary of the Navy. The citation recognized Thorn's professional achievement in the superior performance of his duties from January through October of 1994 at the Naval Air Systems Command and it was signed by the Naval Air Systems Commander on behalf of the Secretary of the Navy. And finally, the famed French artist to Lucila Trek made four paintings of lesbian couples in the intimate settings. One of those is the 1892 work In Bed, The Kiss, which has been in a private collection. In May, it'll be up for auction at

Suf B's, but if you're interested, you'll have to dig deep. They estimate the sale price will be $4 .7 million. That's News Wrap for the Weekending March 4, 1995 compiled and written by Cindy Friedman. Follow the news in your area. An informed community is a strong community. For this way out, I'm Cindy Friedman, and I'm John Bokre. Coming up later, another Clinton perspective on family values. US Senator Ben Nyhorse Campbell of Colorado this week shifted allegiances from the Democratic to the Republican Party. He's been a vocal proponent of lesbian and gay rights, but is considered to be fiscally more conservative than many of his former Democratic colleagues. The move probably came as welcome news to members of log cabin clubs around the US, a national federation of gay and lesbian Republicans. Given the reputation of the

Republican Party on lesbian and gay issues, the idea of a queer member of the GOP may seem a bit strange, but some exit polls from last November's election show that one third of gay and lesbian votes went Republican. Members of the log cabin clubs believe they can have a positive impact on Congress's new majority party. In Philadelphia, Bert Wyland prepared this report. Thank you for coming into our February General Meeting on the log cabin club before it off here. Dr. H. Evelyn Koch might seem a rare breed. On the Thursday evening in a swank center city Philadelphia hotel, she's opening the monthly meeting of the local log cabin club. The 30 or so mostly male attendees are dressed in finely tailored business suits, hardly looking like radical activists. In fact, they're mostly conservative Republicans. It appearances tonight are deceiving. For some of them just being here is the most radical step they've ever taken, and some of these people have something to hide. Koch boldly goes where some of these men don't dare go on their own. I'm a Jewish lesbian. In an organization of gay and

lesbians, log cabin, we're throughout the country 8 ,000 strong. We're starting new clubs at a rate of one a month, and it's delightful. There are gay and lesbians that are thoroughly disgusted with the false promises of the Democratic Party. More than two decades ago, Koch, now in her mid 50s, was truly a radical activist. She carried picket signs, the political rallies. She founded the mostly lesbian Westfield New Jersey chapter of the national organization for women. Now she's the president of the local log cabin chapter, as well as vice president of the national log cabin federation. But she's not the only unlikely member of what to many minds has been traditionally a bastion of white male heterosexual privilege. Abner Mason of Boston is national president of the log cabin federation, the umbrella organization of the more than 40 local chapters around the country. Mason is an African -American gay man. A cynic might wonder how a man such as Mason could relate to a political party

that's come to be identified with religious intolerance and racial and anti -gay bigotry. The Democratic Party, as well, has a great many people who have a narrow, intolerant vision of their party, the Democratic Party, and America. So I don't think that either party has a monopoly on intolerance and bigotry. I do think that the Republican Party, that the people in this country who have decided for whatever reason that they don't think a gay and lesbian should be part of the American family and treated equally and be fully a part of the American family. Those people have decided to sort of make their stand in the Republican Party. So if you care about gay and lesbian issues and gay and lesbian equality and you want to make a difference in the struggle to bring about equality for gay and lesbian, the place to fight that battle is in the Republican Party. Okay, but as a gay Republican you've got your work cut out for you. The Republicans themselves hinted that it might get ugly when they

declared war on homosexuals of the 1992 Republican National Convention. Gay Republicans face a perplexing dilemma. What's worse, proclaiming your homosexuality in the midst of right -wing reactionaries or professing your seemingly traitorous political orientation among left -wing revolutionaries. Some radical gay activists illustrate some fairly typical hostile attitudes. I find the political naivety of the log cabin club and their cronies staggering. Well, I think there's something we have to put up with. It's kind of like Newt Gingrich. I hope we just have to put up with him for two years. I do not see the log cabin club working in the interests of liberation or working in the interests of us all being able to live with dignity and our basic needs met. I'm always struck by the fact that the extremes, the far right of my party and the far left of my community, are really very similar. Rich Tafel is executive director of the log cabin federation headquartered in Washington DC. Tafel is a Harvard -trained ordained Baptist minister. He entered politics in the

administration of Massachusetts Republican Governor William Weld. Underwhelmed, Massachusetts adopted gay -specific statewide civil rights protections. Tafel often goes head -to -head on radio and television debating religious fundamentalists about the merits of granting civil rights protections to homosexuals, but he fights an uphill battle in the gay community as well. In many cases, what's heard are lobbying strategy here in Washington and around the country is we said, well, all Republicans are awful. They're terrible people, so we're not even going to talk to them. Well, that's a catch -22. If you don't talk to people in a positive way where you share your values and you respect them, going into the conversation, you can be guaranteed. They're not going to respect you very much either. So the community, I would think, has to mature a little bit and get beyond the sort of, you know, all Democrats are good, all Republicans are bad. Perhaps when the Democrats controlled Congress, Gays could afford to play favorites and even shun the Republican minority. But the Republicans are in charge now and log cabin is moving in to fill the void left by what they think was a failure to cultivate good relations all around. Log cabin

president Abner Mason. The majority of gay and lesbian groups had existed before this were primarily Democratic. They only worked on the left, Democratic side of the aisle. They didn't pay any attention to Republicans. They didn't talk to Republicans. They didn't care about Republicans. And all of the arguments for years have been crafted in such a way to convince people who are far more liberal. And in fact, many of those arguments have been designed in a way to actually offend people who are more conservative. We have an extraordinary amount of education and persuasion to do. Most Republicans, and I want to emphasize this, have never had the opportunity to sit down with gay and lesbian people who shared their other values. That becomes the job of log cabin executive director Rich Tafel. He faces at best a hostile climate. For instance, Republican National Committee Chairman Haley Barber told an NBC's meet the press recently that his party is very strongly against the government advocating or in any way promoting a homosexual lifestyle. And Republican House Speaker Newt Gingrich told a Georgia town meeting in January that he would follow through on a promise

he made to Reverend Lou Sheldon to hold hearings on so -called homosexual influences on public education. Sheldon is a fundamentalist preacher and leader of the traditional values coalition, which is called for the internment of people with AIDS and concentration camps. Because the right wing now has exceptional access to Capitol Hill, Tafel finds himself up against notions such as civil rights for gays and lesbians amounts to special rights, or that spousal benefits for same -gender partners threaten marriage and undermine the family. The gay and lesbian community can't believe these arguments are working. Well, the reason they're working is because people are starting with some very severe prejudices that no one's addressed. And we're having this argument, and the gay person is saying, this is about civil rights. It's simply about civil rights. Well, the person listening is saying, I wouldn't want to give civil rights to a pedophile. When I go into offices on the Hill, I've heard some of the most bizarre, horrible things about gays and lesbians. I get really angry and say, you are so stupid. How could you be in 1995 so poorly educated about this topic? But I never do that. I never get angry. I just say,

look, let me explain this to you. And so I go in with an attitude of saying, I know you're not going to understand this. Let me move you in a direction. I look at it that way. I say, let's move in the right direction. Log cabin points to moderate allies, such as Republican governors William Weld of Massachusetts, and Christine Whitman of New Jersey, New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani, and Senator Arlen Spector of Pennsylvania. Log cabin club members clearly have more in common politically with their fiscally conservative fellow Republicans than they do with Democrats who share the same sexual orientation. But Tafel echoes a familiar refrain heard from liberal gay activists through the decades when Democrats controlled the Congress, namely that visibility at the grassroots level is the best way to shatter homosexual stereotypes that stand in the way of civil rights protections for sexual minorities. What's exciting for me, I think, in this next few decades is people saying, no, I'm from Tulsa. I'm going to stay in Tulsa. I'm going to come out in Tulsa in a Republican

party. I remember the Roman Catholic Church, whatever it is, and I think that's going to be the greatest gains we'll make now will be those people. That's the pioneers, and those are the people with courage. They're really making the difference now. Umbert Wylin, for this way out. Hello, I'm David Mixner, an official senior advisor to President Clinton. You're listening to this way out, the International Gay and Lesbian Radio Magazine. I love

to laugh. I love to laugh. I love to laugh. It's getting worse every year. The more I laugh, the more I film with clay, and the more the glue. The more I'm a marryer me. It's embarrassing. The more I'm a marryer me. She sometimes calls herself hilarity Clinton, but Kate Clinton's lengthy career as a lesbian feminist political humorist, or fumerist, as she was once built, is her only relation to the current residents of the White House. In the conclusion of John Bow praised this way out, interview with Kate Clinton, America's first lesbian talks about family values, her life with those she's related to, and her seven -year relationship with high -profile queer activist Irvish Yvod. How about parents, your parents, and the L word? How did they deal

with it? They're able to say it now. My dad can say it sort of strongly. He used to say it behind his hand. The difference is, four years ago, when I went to the gay games in Vancouver, I told my dad I was going to the gay games and tried to get around it. This time, when they were in New York, he asked me if I was going. We've made some progress. Was that a hard transition to deal with your parents and coming out? Well, God, yes. My mom died. No, not because of it, but certainly that's what they led me to believe. Don't tell your mother, it'll kill her. No, but it's a process, you know. It was hard for me. I have three brothers. I just called them and they're all home. We wish they could work. But anyway, they, two of them were very supportive. One is kind of a right to life, not kind of. I mean, he's like, takes the bus, carries pictures of eggs in his pocket. I'm worried about him. He actually came to a show under duress and not wearing a dress, but under duress. Oh my God.

And the only thing he said to me after the show was, your diction is very good, indicating to me, like I heard every word you said. And my sister, who is younger than me, has always been wonderful. She's very proud of me. She brought her little three and five year old to come to this show. They call me Aunt Joke. I was forbidden to see some of my nieces and nephews for a while because they thought I was a bad influence. And I was the aunt, you know, that picked them up. We went to the car wash and screamed all the way through and pretended it was like a monster movie. And I bring the kids home and they wouldn't have voices in my vehicle. What did you do? And I said, we went to the car wash, you know, screamed and yelled. And they said, well, we're going to, when I came out to them, they said, you know, we have to tell them that they can't hang out with you anymore because you're a bad influence. I said, I'd really like to be around when you do this because we've had nothing but a riot. So there was an awkward, horrible time there. But as soon as they turned teens, I noticed that they were like, could they come and spend the year with you?

Could they spend their 16 year with you? And I'm worried about straight families. I don't really think it's going well for them. And that's why they turn their attention to us because their online is so messed up. But, you know, I think sometimes they're jealous. I mean, I can see my sister going, you're going where? You're having people over for dinner, you know? Yeah. But, you know, I think that one of the big problems was, and I will certainly come to it myself, was that there's a lot of heterophobia among gay people. And I think we rule out straight people. I mean, I think some of it is certainly justified because there's a lot of, well, that nasty gay bashing. But I, you know, I think that in a lot of ways that we under estimate our allies. I mean, my sister gets furious about things now that I kind of, I know, I'd no longer get furious, but she calls me up and she goes, did you care what he said? And he's to call him. Right. I'm to get a little personal in the last few minutes that we have. I called

you a little earlier, part of the, the, the queeristocracy, the royal family, royal families of, of Gaydom. You've been seen in the company of one of the great leaders of the lesbian and gay movement in the United States, Urbashi Vod, whom Time Magazine, this last year, listed as one of the most influential Americans under the age of 40. Can you talk a little bit about your relationship with Urbashi? Right now it's long distance. Honey, if you're listening, please come out here. She is finishing her book. She's madly in rewrite, so she hasn't been able to come out here and enjoy the sunniness of California with me. It's raining right now. But anyway, and for our listeners, your home is in. My home is in Providence Town and we've been together for seven years, five in long distance and the last two since she's moved out of Washington. We've been living together and it's been wonderful to have like somebody have a home base. The demands on Urbashi's time must be enormous and her trying to grab time to write your

performance schedules in your traveling around the country. How do you manage to maintain a relationship? Email. Email. We're totally. Email. It's embarrassing. Well, we talk a lot to each other on the phone and we're used to it because we did have a long distance relationship for a number of years. It does not substitute for, you know, hugging and cuddling them. Yes, but you know, it's we weren't there. But we went to the airport and we weren't in crisis. Isn't that a cool thing? We're so mature. I couldn't believe it. But we keep each other in line, you know. We see each other in the morning. What was the dynamics of this relationship? How did this come about, you think? Oh, it was one of those conference flings, don't you know? And it was just love it for sight. Well, no, it was lust. I would say, pretty much, and it grew into love and it's still lustful. And boy, that's fun. Okay. Look at I start tapping as soon as she gets nervous. She's talking about the personal stuff. I miss her

so much. Okay. Where do things go for Abashi at this point? I think that she's going to make a million dollars and I will be supported in the manner that I'm growing accustomed to. No, I she will be out causing trouble in no time. Her book is fabulous. It's a wonderful, wonderful read and a wonderful service. I think that the game has been community and she'll be touring with that and then oh, I don't know. She's got it depends on the day. She's got about it. I've never seen anybody with as many ideas as she has. You know, I wake up in the morning and she's like, well, you could do this. You could do this. We could do this. We could do this. And I'm like, could I have a cup of coffee? Please, dear. Before we save the world. How about you? I am continuing to perform, which is just wonderful. And I hope to have a long and illustrious career. And I'm also writing a lot. I mean, I've been writing working on this book, which is it'll be out just just before Fran Leibou. It's finished as hers because she takes smoking breaks, so might a week quicker. And I've been working on, I've been writing a column for the progressive. I'm so proud of it. And so lots is happening. I'm happy.

I'm gay. It's been a real pleasure to have you here on this way out, Kate. Thanks for joining us. We wish you great success in your new show and in your new book. From Los Angeles, this is John Bob Bray. Today. Oh! The whole world is full of freedom. The whole world is full of freedom. The whole world is full of freedom. The whole world is full of freedom. Ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah. Ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah. Thanks for tuning into This Way Out, The International Les Bynons, Gay Radio Magazine. This week, Cindy Friedman, John Bopray, Brian Nunes, Ron Buckmeyer, Jason Lynn, Bert Wyrland, and Susan Gage contributed program material. Thanks also to Frank Stoltz and the news department at KPFK in Los Angeles. Peter Palmer and Stubby K and Ed Wynn performed some of the music you heard and Kim Wilson composed and performed our theme music. This way, I'll just produce each week by a small staff of community volunteers

and a sustained by financial support from the community. Some of our operating expenses are funded by grants from the Colin Higgins Foundation advised by the Tides Foundation and the David Geffen Foundation. You can write to this way out at post office box 38327, Los Angeles, California, 90038 USA, or email us at TWORadio at AOL .com. And please be sure to include the call letters of this station. Speaking for everyone at this way out, I'm Greg Gordon. Thanks for listening on WPK and Bridgeport, CFUV Victoria, KZYX Philo, and over 85 other stations in seven countries, including this community radio station. And we all hope you'll stay tuned.