The NewsHour with Jim Lehrer

light at own and eighteen good evening i'm jim lehrer and washington and i welcome you to this special newshour pbs coverage of the third and final two thousand for presidential debate you're looking at gammage auditorium at arizona state university in tempe arizona and just a few moments president george w bush and sen john kerry will take questions from the moderator bob schieffer of cbs news as the candidates earlier had agreed that this last debate would focus on domestic affairs economy health care and tax cuts are among the issues expected to come up but it wouldn't be too surprising if the candidates were also able to reference the war interact with a war on terrorism during the course of this debate with just twenty days ago before the election the polls show a race that could tan used a titan many national polls reports a statistically dead even contest this debate will be the last time voters can

assess the two candidates side by side after the debate tonight we'll talk to our regular analyst mark shields and david brooks and two historians michael beschloss richard norton smith and ellen fitzpatrick and now to arizona state university in tempe and two bob schieffer a cbs news good evening from arizona state university in tempe arizona i'm bob schieffer of cbs news i wanna welcome you to the third or less of the two thousand four debates between president george bush and senator john kerry as jim lehrer told you before the first when these debates are sponsored by the commission on presidential debates the might the topic will be domestic appears but the format will be the same as the first debate all moderate our discussion under detail rules agreed to by the candidates but the questions and the

area's to be covered were chosen by me i had not told the candidates or anyone else what they are to refresh your memory on the rules on the last question the candidate has allowed two minutes to answer his opponent then as i'm an adapter offer a rebuttal and my discretion it an extended discussion by offering each candidate an additional thirty seconds a green light will come on to signal a candidate has thirty seconds left a yellow light signals fifteen seconds left a red light means five seconds left there is also a buzzer if it is needed the candidates may not question each other directly there are no opening statements there war but there will be two minute closing statements there is an audience here tonight but they have agreed to remain silent except for right now when they join me in welcoming president george bush and senator john kerry fb is

b gentlemen welcome to evolve by a coin toss the first question goes to senator kerry senator i wanted was set the stage for this discussion by asking a question that i think things over all of our politics today and is probably on the minds of many people watching this debate tonight and that is where our children and grandchildren ever live the world as safe and secure as the world in which we live before saul bob thank you for moderating tonight's thank your arizona state for welcoming us and thank you the presidential commission for undertaking this

enormous task we're proud to be your best president and glad to be here with you again to share similarities and differences with american people will we ever be safe and secure again yes we absolutely must think that's the goal how we achieve it is the most critical component i believe that this president regrettably rushed us into war made decisions about foreign policy pushed alliances away and as a result america is now bearing this extraordinary burden where we are not as safe as we ought to be a measurement is not i would say if the measurement is are we as safe as we ought to be and there are a host of options that there's like making sure that all our ports of america containers are inspected only ninety five percent of them ninety fives and commanded a un inspected that's not good enough people would fly on

airplanes today the cargo hold is not x rayed but the baggage is that's not good enough firehouses don't have enough firefighters and police officers being cut from the streets of america because the president decided to cut the copps program so we can do a better job of homeland security i can do a better job of waging a smarter more effective war and terror and guarantee that we go after the terrorists al hunt them down and we'll kill them will capture them will do whatever necessary to be safe and i pledged this to america i will do it in the way that franklin roosevelt ronald reagan and john kennedy and others did where we build the strongest alliances where the world joins together where we have the best intelligence and where we're able ultimately to be more safe and secure as president of money stopped it were much more fighters on the state is well yes we can be safe and secure if we stay on the office against terrorists and if we stood for human liberty around the world i have got a

comprehensive strategy the knowledge is daniel powter were really just like in progress to report is the current leaders have been brought to justice but to make sure the country to harbor terrorists are held to account as a result of securing ourselves and reading the taliban out of afghanistan the afghan people had elections this weekend and that first voter was a nineteen year old woman think about their freedom is on the march we held to account that first regime of saddam hussein and other words in order make sure we're secure there must be a comprehensive plan my opponent just as we can't talk about terrorism could be reduced to a nuisance comparing into prostitution illegal gambling i think that attitude that's one of the as dangerous i don't think you can secure a marker for the long run if you don't have a comprehensive view is that i think the people would hold will do everything we can protect the homeland a sign the homeland security bill to better align our assets and

resources my opponent voted against it wooden everything we can't protect our borders and ports but absolutely we can be secure in the long run to just taste it strong leadership yes when the president had an opportunity to convert you so the lion he took its focus off of an outsourced the job to afghan warlords and i saw the line the state six months after he said osama one must be caught dead or alive as president was asked where's osama line is that i don't know i don't really think about it very much and not that concerned when you're president tuesday's deadly focused on the real war on terror as president och s had ever said and now we're about a song that line the skin woes or exaggerations for sort of sound in the long run the hot after osama bin laden are using every asset at our disposal again o'sullivan line up on said this war is a matter of intelligence and in law enforcer know this is a

war is a matter of using every asset are at our disposal to keep the american people rejected no question this present to you that we're talking about protecting ourselves from the unexpected with flu season suddenly opponents flu kills thousands of people every year suddenly we find ourselves with a severe shortage of flu vaccine how did that happen bob we relied upon a company out of england to provide about half of the flu vaccines the united states isn't it turned out that the vaccine there were producing a was contaminated and so we took the right action in didn't allow contaminated medicine into our country we're working with canada and hopefully they'll produce a pope has realized that that's a necessary to make sure our citizens have got flu vaccinations are in this upcoming season my called our fellow americans

is if you're healthy if you're younger don't get a flu shot the sheer help of prioritize those who need to get the flu shot the elderly and the young the us cdc responsible for health in the united states is setting those priorities and is allocating the flu vaccine accordingly i haven't got the flu shot and i don't intend to taiwan to make sure that those who are most vulnerable to get traded we have a problem with litigation in the united states of america vaccine manufacturers are worried about getting sued and so therefore they have backed off from providing this kind of vaccine one reason such a strong believer in the legal reform it so that the people are afraid of producing a product that is necessary for the health of our citizens and then end up getting sued and a court a law but they are the best thing we can do now bob

given the circumstances with the company in england is for those of us who are younger and healthy dont get a flu shot so to carry this really are it underscores the problem with the american health care system is not working for the martin family and it's gotten worse under president bush of course the last two years five million americans have lost their health insurance in this country and you got about i'm in a dry arizona to shine hundred and fifty thousand were no health insurance at all eighty two thousand arizonans lost their health insurance under president bush's watch two hundred and twenty three thousand kids in arizona have no health insurance at all all across our country go all high at one point four million ohioans have no health insurance hundred and fourteen thousand was under president bush wisconsin at two thousand wisconsin lost to president

bush this president has turned his back on the wellness of america and there is no system in fact it's starting to fall apart not because of lawsuits though they are a problem and john edwards and i are committed to fixing them but because of the larger issue that we don't cover americans were children across our country don't have health care or the richest country on the face of the planet the only industrialized nation in the world not to do it i have a plan to cover all americans we make it affordable accessible to let everybody by and the same health care plan senators and congressmen give themselves as president would you like to add something i will thank you i want to remind people listening tonight that a planet is not a litany of complaints and a plan is not to lay out programs that you can't pay for he just it was everybody would buy into the same planet senators and carson get that cost the government seven thousand seven hundred dollars per family of every family in america signed up about the senator suggested would cost

five trillion dollars over ten years it's an empty promises called bait and switch i say it's not an empty promise is really interesting because the president used that very plan as a reason for seniors to accept his prescription drug plan he said if it's good enough for i'm for the congressman's outburst of joyce seniors out of joyous what we do is we have to its itunes will cross blue shield other senators other guardsmen choose other programs but the fact is we're going to help americans be a will buy into it those that can't afford it into violence overnight given this away for nothing they carry into question let's talk about economic security you pledge during the last debate that you would not raise taxes on those making less than two hundred thousand dollars a year but the price of everything is going up and we'll know health care costs as you will of talking about skyrocketing the course of the

war my question is how can you or in the crust and whoever's elected next time keep that pledge without running this country deeper into debt and passing on more of the bills that were running out dr jill kelley exactly how i can do by reinstating what president bush took away which is called pay as you go during the nineteen nineties we had a pay as you go rules if you're going to pass something in the congress at the show where you're gonna pay for it now president bush has taken it is the only president in history to do this is also the only president since and in seventy two years to lose jobs one point six million jobs lost he's the only president to have incomes of families go down for the last three years the only presidency exports go down the only president to see the lowest level of business investment our country as it is today i'm going to reverse that i'm a change that order to restore the fiscal discipline we had in the nineteen nineties every plan that i

have laid out my health care plan my plan for education my plan for kids to be a wig at their college loans i've shown exactly how i'm a paper those and we start we don't do exclusively but we start by rolling back george bush's unaffordable tax cut for the wealthiest people people earning more than two hundred thousand dollars a year and we past hopefully the mccain kerry commission which identified some sixty billion dollars that we can get week we shot the loophole which has american workers actually subsidizing the loss of their own jobs they just passed an expansion of that local the last few days forty three billion dollars of giveaways including favors to the oil and gas industry and the people were importing ceiling fans from china i'm going to stand up and fight for the american worker and i'm a dude in a way thats fiscally sound i show how i pay for the health care how we pay for the education either manufacturing jobs credit we pay for it by shutting that loophole overseas we raise this to the lowes i pay for it by changing relationship with the banks this

president has never once vetoed one bill first president a hundred years not to do that well was rotterdam match his record and he then a server twenty years he voted to increase taxes ninety eight times when they try to reduce taxes he voted against at hundred twenty seven times he talks about being a fiscal conservative or for the fiscally sound body voted over two hundred seventy seven times the way the budget caps which of course that i would've cost taxpayers four point two trillion dollars he talks about pay go it would take no means we're a senator from massachusetts we're calling of ted kennedy paco means you play and he goes ahead and stance he's proposed two point two trillion dollars of new spending and yet the so called tax on the rich which is also a tax on many small business owners in america racist sits on a million by

our count eight billion eight hundred billion by his account there is a tax gap and guess who usually ends up killing the past year the middle class i propose a detail budget i sent out my budget man to the congress and he says here's how we're going to reduce the deficit in half by five years it require of pro growth policies that grow our economy and fiscal sanity in the halls of congress that's a totally new question this present two minutes and let's continue on jobs in other all kind of statistics out there but i want to bring it down to an individual but the present what do you say to someone in this country who has lost his job to someone overseas who's been paid a fraction of what their job paid here in the united states i say bob i've got policies to continue to grow our economy and create the jobs of the twenty first century and here's some help for you to go get an education here's some help

rebuild a community college we've expanded trade adjustment assistance we want to help pay for you to gain the skills necessary to fill the jobs of the twenty first century there's a lot of talk about how to keep the economy growing we talk about fiscal matters but perhaps the best way to keep jobs you're an american to keep its economy going to make sure our education system works i went to washington to solve problems and i saw a problem in the public education system in in america they're shuffling too many kids through the system year after year grade after write without warning the basics as it was let's raise the standards were spending more money but let's raise the standard and measure early and solve problems now been forced to wait no education is how to help the person who lost jobs education is how to make sure this or we got a workforce it's productive and competitive the four more years i got more to do to continue to raise standards to change a reward teachers and school this or center working emphasize math in

science in the classrooms to continue to expand pell grants to make sure that people have an opportunity to start your career with a college diploma so the person you talk to has a fearsome help your some trade adjustment assistance money for you to go to a community college in your neighborhood or community college which is providing the skills necessary to fill the jobs of the twenty first century and asset would say that person sent there i want you to notice how president switched away from jobs and start talking about education principle if i let me come back in one moment about that what a speaker aside if i can do what the president said about fiscal responsibility being lectured by the president on fiscal responsibility is a little bit like tony soprano talking to me about lawn order in this country this president has taken a five point six trillion dollars surplus and turned it into deficits as far as the eye can see on health care costs for the average american and got up sixty four percent

tuitions about a thirty five percent gasoline prices up thirty percent medicare premiums went up seventeen percent viewed as a prescription drugs or a proper study year but guess what america the wages of america's gun down the jobs that've been great in arizona right now paying about thirteen thousand seven hundred dollars less than the jobs that were losing and the president just walks on by this problem the fact is that he's got job training money billion dollars has got they only added bloomberg back this year cause it's election year that cut the pell grants and the perkins loans to help kids be a will go to college they've got the training money they've they've wound up not even extending unemployment benefits and not even extending health care to those people are unemployed and where do those things cause that's what's right in america health workers to transition in every respect your question you're sending carry two minutes and it's still on jobs you know many experts say that are presently doesn't have much control over jobs for example or someone invents a machine that

does the work of five people about progress that's not the presents for so i ask you is it failure the blame the administration internally for this last job i don't blame them entirely for eid blamed the president of the things the president could do that has an impact on outsourcing is going to happen either acknowledge that in union halls across the country are that shop steward stand up and say would you promise me you're going to stop all this outsourcing about what the money i and i've said no i can't do that when i can promise you is that i will make the playing field is fairest possible that i will for instance make certain that with respect to the tax system that you as a worker in america are not subsidizing the loss of your job today if you're an american business you actually get a benefit on overseas you prefer your taxes so you're looking at a competitive world you say is ok i do better overseas than i do here in america

that's not smart i don't want american workers subsidizing the loss of their own job and when i'm president we're in a shot that loophole in a nanosecond and we'll use that money to lower corporate tax rates in america for all corporations five percent i might have a manufacturing jobs credit and a job hiring credits to actually help people feel a higher gear the second thing that we can do is provide a fair trade plainfield this president didn't stand up for boeing when arab us was violating international rules and subsidies he discovered boeing marine corps this campaign after i've been talking about it for months that the fact is that the president an opportunity to stand up in and an end and take on china for currency manipulation there companies that wanted to position the administration they were dull billy modern racket listen to the fact is that there've been market shot to us that we have stood up and fought for i'm going to fight for a fare trade playing field for the american worker and i will

fight for the american worker just as hard as i fight for my own job that's of the american worker wants and if we do that we get evident that plus we need fiscal discipline restore fiscal discipline will be a lot better as the priest who star with the pell grants in his last libya ms statements he said we cut pell grants we've increased pell grants by eight million students as a fact you talk to the workers let me talk to the workers you got more money in your pocket as a result of the tax relief we pass and he opposed if you have a child you get a one thousand are chopped red as money in your pocket if you're married her we reduced the marriage ban on the route encouraged merits not discouraged marriage weekday ten percent bracket to help lower income americans a family of four making forty thousand dollars saved

about seventeen hundred hours in tax relief it's your money when my opponent autism or hispanic garments maya were spending your money and we'll have more money in your pocket you're able to better for things you want i believe the role of government is to stand side by side with our citizens realize their dreams not to our citizens that live their lives my opponent talks about fiscal sanity his record in the united states senate does not match his rhetoric he voted to increase taxes ninety eight maps and the bust the budget to honor and seventy seven times secretary bob anybody can play these votes everybody knows that i have supported or voted for tax cuts over six hundred times i broke with my party in order to balance that budget ronald reagan signed into law the tax bill that we voted or i voted for ira tax cuts it would have a small business tax cuts and you know why the pell grants have gone up in their numbers because more people qualify for them because they don't have money but they're not getting the fifty one hundred dollars the president

promised them they're getting less money and more people qualify as not what we want they're not always playing with your vote you vote increased taxes many times and with a proposed reducing tax your december twenty six times he voted to violate the budget have to understand that sometimes you are no the mainstream american politics you sit right on the far left by smartphone to record a search that ted kennedy your colleague is the conservative senator from massachusetts the stress it lets them back economic issues but let's shift to some other questions here that both of you were opposed to gay marriage but to understand how you have come to that conclusion when i ask you a more basic question do you believe homosexuality is a choice you know bob i don't know just oh no i

do know that we have a choice to make in america and that is to treat people with tolerance and respect and dignity it's important that we be there and also a free society people consenting adults can live the way they want with nasa be honored but as we respect someone's rights and as we professed tolerance we shouldn't change or have to change our basic views on the sanctity of marriage i believe in the sanctity of marriage is very important that we protect marriage as an institution between a man and a woman a proposed constitutional amendment the reason i get so was because i was worried that activist judges are actually defining the definition of marriage and the surest way to protect marriage between a man and woman is to amend the constitution it has also the benefit of allowing us citizens but despite the process after all when you man the constitution state legislatures must participate in the ratification of the constitution i'm deeply concerned that judges are making those decisions and not a century of the

united states no congress passed a law called the mother a defense of marriage act my opponent was against civic basically protect his state from the actual action of one state to another it also will define marriage as between a man and woman but i'm concerned that that will get overturned and if it gets overturned they will end up with a marriage being defined by courts and i don't think that's in our nation's interest we're all god's children i think if you were to talk to dick cheney's daughter who is a lesbian she would tell you that as being who she was they know she was born alice i think if you talk to anybody it's not a choice i've met people who struggled with this for years people who

were in a marriage because they were living a solar convention and i struggled with that and i've met wives who are supportive of their husbands or vice versa when they finally sort of broke out and then allow themselves to live who they were who they felt god had made them that we have to respect that i'm the president i share the voice that marriage is between a man and woman i believe that i believe marriage is between a man and a woman but i also believe that because we are the united states of america were country with a great unbelievable constitution with rights that we're for people that you can't discriminate workplace you can't discriminate in the right signal for people you can't do is allow someone the right to visit there partner and in an impossible yet allow people to transfer property which is why i'm for partnership rights to work now with respect to doma in the marriage was the states have always been able to manage those laws and they're proving today every state that they can manage them adequately cemetery a

new question for you the new york times reports that some catholic archbishop is a telling their church members that it would be a sin the vote for a candidate like you because you support a woman's right to choose an abortion and unlimited stem cell research what is your reaction to that i respect their views i completely respect their views i am a catholic and i grew up learning how to respect those views but i disagree with them as do many i believe that i can't legislate or transfer to another american citizen my article of faith what is an article of faith for me is not something that i can legislate and somebody was ensure that article that i believe the choice is a woman's dream a woman god and her doctor and that's why i support that now i will not allow as somebody to come in and change roe v wade the president has never said whether it would be there but we

know from the people he's trying to point the party wants to i will not i will defend the right of roe v wade out with respect to religion you know as i said i grew up as an altar boy i i i know that throughout my life this has made a difference today and as president kennedy said when he ran for president and he said i'm not running to be a catholic president i'm running to be president happens to be catholic and my faith affects everything that i don't you know this is a great passage of the bible that says what is it named my brother to say well faith if there are no deities faith without works is dead and i think that everything you do in public life has to be guided by your faith affected by your faith but without transferring it in any official way that other people france why i fight against poverty that's why fight to clean up the entire project this earth that's why fight for equality and justice all of those things come out of that fundamental teaching and belief in faith but i know this that president

kennedy is an orderly dressed told all of us that you're on earth god's work was truly be our own and that's what we have decided that's the test of public service is present i think it's important promote a culture of life i think it's despicable society is a society where everything counts every person matters i believe the ideal world is one in which every child protection law welcome to life and sanders are great differences on this issue of abortion but utterly reasonable people can come together and get a law in place that will help reduce the number of abortions take for example the ban on partial birth abortions the brutal practice people from it from both political parties came together in the halls of congress and overwhelming to ban that practice made a lot of sense my opponent happened in that he's out of the mainstream voted against that

law what i'm saying is is that as we promote life in political show wife surely there ways we can work together traditional river abortions continue to promote adoption laws some great alternatives to abortion continued to funnel promote majority group homes i will continue quote actions programs less afraid my opponent said his wife was involved with those program that's right i appreciate it very much all of a sudden be involved programs provide a viable alternative to abortion this present when seven of questioning goes to you a lot of the economic issues health insurance costs have risen over thirty six percent over the last four years of court with the washington post were paying more we're getting alas i would last like to ask you who bears responsibility for this is that the government is that the insurance companies is that the warriors is a doctor's visit the administration there is a

there's a systemic problem health care costs are on the rise because the consumers are not informed decision making process most health care costs are covered by third parties and therefore the actual user of health care is not the purchaser of health care there's no market forces involved with health care for reasons i'm a strong believer in what they call health savings accounts these are cow so awesome it by a low premium high deductible catastrophic planning coupled with tax free savings businesses can contribute employees can contribute on a contractual basis but this is a way to make sure people are actually involved with the decision making process on health care suddenly i do believe the losses and only buy know that the lawsuits are causing health care costs rise in america that's why such a strong believer in medical liability reform last debate my opponents a way only those lawsuits only close close to go up by one percent well he didn't it inning included a fencing practice of

medicine because of the river some twenty eight billion dollars you're a cancer society between sixty and a hundred billion dollars a year a fairly awhile reasons why there's still high costs and in medicine is because this is it that are using information technology it's like if you look at that it's the equivalent of the of the body and more states compared to other industries here in america and so we get interviews like technology into health care were beginning there were changed the line was we want to be like heart medical records to cut down on air as well as to reduce gas people tell me that when when the health care field has fully integrated with information technology or in some twenty percent the cost of the system and finally moving generic drugs to the market quicker so there's a four ways to help control the cost of health care the reason healthcare costs are getting higher one of them as reasons is that this administration has stood in the way of commonsense efforts that would reduce the costly

get your prime example in the senate we passed the right of americans to import drugs from canada but the president has friends to get out the house so now you don't have that right the president block you from the right than less expensive drugs from canada we also wanted medicare to be able to negotiate bulk purchase a va does that va provides a lower cost of drugs to our veterans we could've done that medicare medicare is paid for by the american taxpayer medicare belongs to you medicare is for seniors who are many of them on fixed income to lift them out of poverty but rather than help you the taxpayer have a lower cost rather than help seniors have less expensive drugs the president made it illegally illegal for medicare to actually go out and bargain for lower prices results one hundred and thirty nine billion dollar windfall profits of the drug companies coming out your pockets that's a large part of your seventy percent increase in medicare premiums when i'm president and sending them back

to congress a minute a real prescription drug benefit now we also have people sick or because they don't have health insurance so whether it's diabetes or cancer they come gospels later and across america more we got at health care for all americans i think its importance as he talked about the medicare plan as even the united states senate for twenty years he has no record or record it on your list of three hundred girls ages five no record of leadership i came to watch an assortment of deeply concerned about seniors having to choose between prescription drugs and food as i lay and two thousand sets our seniors will get a prescription drug coverage to medicare senator kerry said i once again the president's misleading america have actually passed fifty six individual bills that i've personally written and in addition to that and i was under my name those amendments and certain bills but more importantly with respect to the aggression no record i helped write i did

write as well the original authors of the early childhood health care and the expansion of health care that we did in the middle of the nineteen nineties i'm very proud of that so president ron lead me and direct the next question you send a carrier and again let's stay on the on health care you have heirs say you have proposed and as the president has commented on tonight proposed a massive plan to extend health care coverage to children are also talking about the government picking up a big part of the catastrophic bills of people dead at the hospital and you have said that you can pay for this by rolling back the president's tax cut on the upper two percent are you heard the president say earlier tonight there's gonna cost a whole lot more money than that i just last view of where are you going to get the money well two leading national news networks both said the president's characterization of my health care plan is incorrect one called infection the other called it untrue the fact is that my health care plan america is very simple it gives you the choice

i don't force you to do anything it's not a government plan the government doesn't require you to do is you choose your doctor you choose your plan if you don't want to take the offer of the plan that i'm one of the board you don't have to you can keep what you have today keep my deductible keep my premiums keep ohio co pay people benefits and i got a better plan and i don't think a lot of people are gonna wanna keep what they have to date here's what i do we take over medicaid children from the state so that every child in america is covered and in exchange the state's water forced american troops do they cover individuals up for percent of poverty it's their choice i'd think they'll choose a visits a net loss of five billion dollars to we allow oh you if you choose you don't have to but we give you a broader competition to allow you to buy into the same health care plan that senators and congressmen give themselves it's good enough for us it's good enough for every american i believe that your healthcare is just as important as any politician in washington dc

you wanna buy into it it can we get your broader competition that helps lower prices in addition to that will allow people fifty five to sixty four to buy into medicare early and most importantly we give small business a fifty percent tax credit so after we lower the cost of health care they also get whether they're self employed or small business a lower cost to be a will cover their employees now what happens is when you begin to get people covered like that for instance and diabetes if you diagnose diabetes early you could say fifty billion dollars in health care system in america by avoiding surgery and dialysis it works and i'm an offer to market is fresh and all the respect and the seizure of scramble to quote leading news organizations but the lewin reports orr is eighty group of folks who

are not politically filet they analyze the senator's plan to cost one point two trillion dollars we're actually noted that the nearly twenty million people over twenty million people added the government controlled health care the largest increases in government health care ever if you raise the medicaid to three hundred percent that provides an incentive for small businesses not to provide private insurers to their employees why should they and i'm sure somebody when the government can ensure form is estimated eight million people will go from private insurance to government years we have a fundamental difference of opinion i think government run health will lead to poor quality health lead to rationing will lead to less choice wants a health care program ends up in a line item and the federal government budget it leads to more controls and just look at other countries that have tried that have federally controlled health care their poor quality health care our

health care system is the envy of the world because we believe in making sure the decisions are made by doctors and patients not by officials in the nation's capital sarah palin just said the government run health care result of poor quality and maybe that explains why he hasn't fully funded the va and va hospitals having trouble and veterans are complaining maybe that explains why medicare patients are complaining about being pushed off of medicare doesn't adequately funded the money to settle market i am not proposing a government run program that's not what i have viable cross blue shield senate is unconscionable wide choice americans on another to press club about the va we've increased va funding by twenty two billion the four years since i've been president that's twice the amount that my predecessor increase va funding of course were meeting our obligation to our veterans and the veterans know that we're spending veterans health care throughout the country were lining facilities where the veterans live now that us are getting very good healthcare

under my administration and they will continue to do so in during the next four years as president the next question is do you we all know that social security is running out of money and it has to be fixed you have proposed to fix it by letting people put some of the money collected to pay benefits into private savings accounts but the critics are saying that's going to mean finding a trillion dollars over the next ten years to continue paying benefits as those accounts are being set up so where do you get the money are you going to have to increase the deficit by that much over ten years first let me make sure of it every senior listening today understands that we talk about reforming so security at the still get their checks are among the two thousand campaign because if your survey gets elected your check will be taken away with you about their checks will continue get their checks but there is a problem for our youngsters a real problem and if we don't act today the problem will be right in the trillions it's i think anything differently on our

commitment to our seniors but for young burke your grandchildren we have a different strategies and recognizing that i called together a group of course fellow citizens to study the issue it was a committee chaired by the late senator daniel patrick moynihan of new york a democrat and i came up with a variety of ideas for people again i believe that younger workers audio outtakes and their own money and put in a person's savings account but i understand that they need to get better rates to return the race returning it in a mixer or so security trust and the compound in renovations effect will make it more likely that so security system is solvent for our children our grandchildren i will work with republicans and emirates of be a vital issue in my second term is an issue that i'm willing to take on and so bring republicans and democrats together intercourse can have to conserve the cost but i want or my fellow citizens the cost of doing

nothing the cost of say the current system is okay far exceeds the cost of trying to make sure we say the system for children senator we just heard the president say that young people on deal or take money out of seoul security and put it in their own accounts now my fellow americans and that's an invitation to disaster the cbo said very clearly that if you were to adopt the president's plan will be a two trillion dollar hole and so security because today's workers pay into the system for today's retirees and the cbo said that's the congressional budget office it's bipartisan they said that there would have to be a cut in benefits of twenty five to forty percent now the president has never explained to america ever has undone at the night where does the transitional money that two trillion dollars come from he's already got three trillion dollars according to the washington post of

expenses and put on the line from his convention and the promises of this campaign not of which are paid for not one of them are paid for the fact is that the president has drilled driving the largest ever since american history he's broken the pay as you go rules i have a record of fighting for fiscal responsibility in nineteen eighty five was on the first democrats brokered by party we'd balance the budget in the nineties we pay down the debt for two years and that's what we're going to do what in a bright we're gonna protect social security i will not private doesn't i will not cut the benefits and would be fiscally responsible and we will take care of so scary and they just stay on social security with a new question for sanitary because every tear you have just said you will not cut benefits alan greenspan the chairman of the federal reserve says is no way that social security can't pay retirees' what we've promised them unless we recalibrate what he's suggesting we're gonna have to cut benefits or we're going to have to raise retirement age we may have to take some other reform but if you just said you've promised no changes does

that mean you just believe this is a problem another problem for joining us all absolutely not bob this is a say and when we heard i remember i appeared on meet the press tim russert the nineteen nineties something we heard the same thing with fixed in fact we put together a five point six trillion dollars surplus in the nineties that was for the purpose of saving souls of security if you take the tax cut that the president i'm states has given president bush gave to americans in the top one percent of america just that tax cut that went to the top one percent of america what a save social security until the year twenty seventy five the president decided to give it to the wealthiest americans of tax cuts that alan greenspan who i think has done a terrific job in monetary policy supports the president's tax cut i don't i support it for the middle class not that part of it that goes to people earning more than two hundred thousand dollars a year and when i roll it back and we invest in the

things i've talked about to move our economy we're going to grow sufficiently that would begin to cut the deficit in half and we get back to where we were at the end of the nineteen nineties when they balance the budget and pay down the debt of this country now we can do that now is later on after a period of time we find that so security is in trouble i will pull together the top experts of the country will do exactly what we did in the nineteen nineties and will make whatever adjustments necessary but the first and most important thing is to start creating jobs in america the jobs of president creating pay nine thousand dollars less than the jobs that were losing and this is the first president seventy two years to preside over an economy in america that has lost jobs one point six million jobs all love another presence six democrats and five republicans had wars had recessions a great difficulties none of them lost jobs away this presidents i have a plan to put america back to work and were

fiscally responsible put america back to work were officials to security he forgot today at a potential security benefits more than one time i didn't hear any plan to fix social security are more of the same he talked about middle class tax cuts that's exactly where the tax cuts went most of the tax cuts went to low and middle income americans and now the tax code is warfare twenty percent the upper income people pay about eighty percent of the taxes in america today because of that how we structure the tax cuts people listening out there know the benefits of the tax cuts we pass if you have a child you get actually get your marriage you get to actually if you pay any tax at all you get tax relief all of which was opposed by my opponent and that actually was important to spur consumption and investment to get us out of this recession people need to remember six mph

my arrival the stock market started to go than it was one or just declines in our history and there we have a recession and we got attacked with costas one million jobs but we acted i let the congress we pass tax relief and now this economy strong at one point nine million new jobs over the last thirteen months sure there's more work to do but the way to make sure our economy grows is not to raise taxes on small business owners is not increased the scope of the federal government is to measure with fiscal sanity and keep taxes low that's going to question mr brunson i got more email this week on this question than any other question and it is about immigration and told that at least eight thousand people cross our border illegally every day some people believe this is a security issue is you know some believe it's an economic issue some see it as a human rights issue and how do you see it and what we need to do about i see it has a serious problem i see it a security issue as it is an

economic issue that i see is you rights issues we are increasing the border security of the united states that a thousand more border patrol agents the southern border we using new equipment we're using unmanned vehicles to spot people coming across and we'll continue this over the next four years subject i'm very familiar with that brought was a border governor for a while many people come to this country for economic reasons are coming or if you can make fifty cents and omara mexico for example or make five dollars here in america five fifty you come here if you're work yourself you want to put food on the table for your families and that's what's happening historic take pressure off the border more to make the border is more secure of leader i'll be a temporary worker card that allows a willing worker unwilling employer to made up so long has not ayo ayo american willing to do the job

to join up in order to deal with phil the employer's mates as the benefit of making sure where's our breaking the law as they try to fill their workforce needs it make sure that the people coming across the border he mainly treated that are not kept in the shadows of our society that they're able to go back and forth or to see their families see the coral have a period of time attached to it also means it takes pressure off the border if somebody is coming here to work with a card in these are not had to sneak across the border in these are border patrol we more likely to be able to focus on doing their job now it's very bored forces is also know that i don't believe we ought to have amnesty i think we are reward illegal behavior plenty of people standing in line to become a citizen we are not to a crowded people have online they won't become a citizen then standing like to endure for michael and i differ in september two thousand three he supported amnesty for illegal aliens times of senator levin's is

answered one paralyzed was secretly in iraq and immigration the american middle class families and making it right now bob and what the president said about the tax cuts wiped out on the increase in health care the increasing gasoline increase intuitions that increase prescription drugs the fact is the take home pay of a typical american family as a share of national income is lower than it's been since nineteen twenty nine and the take home pay of the richest point one percent of americans is the highest it's been since nineteen twenty eight under president bush the deep the middle class are seeing their tax burden go up and the wealthiest taxpayers gunned down no that's wrong that with respect immigration reform the president broke his promise and immigration reform he said he would reform four years later he's now promising another plan here's what i'll do number one the borders are more leaking today than they were before nine eleven the fact is we haven't done what we need to do to toughen up our

borders and i will secondly we need a guest worker program but if it's all we have it's not going to solve the problem the second thing we need is to crack down on illegal hiring to cancel on the united states are people illegally and we'll be enforcing that more properly and thirdly we need an earned legalization program for people who've been here for a long time stayed out of trouble got a job pay their taxes and their kids are american widow start moving them towards full citizenship out of the shadows when a response i will say that the borders are not as protectors they were part of september eleventh shows he doesn't know the borders there was better protected today than they were when i was the governor of texas we have much more men are much more equipment there says he doesn't understand how borders were evidently to say that it is an outrageous claim and will continue to protect a portal continue increased manpower and equipment senator are four thousand people a day come across the border

the fact is that there we now have people from the middle east allegedly coming across the border and we're not doing what we are doing turns the technology we have iris identification technology we have some brand fingerprint technology today we can know who the people are that they're really the people they say they are when they cross a boarder we could speed it up there are huge delays the fact is our borders are not a secure as they ordered the atomic insecure next question your cemetery the gap between rich and poor is growing wider more people are dropping in the party at the a minimum wages been stopped at what five dollars and fifteen cents an hour now for about seventy years is it time to raising online here is the question it's long overdue time to raise the minimum wage and america this is one of those issues that that separates the president myself we have fought to try to raise the minimum wage in the last years of the republican leadership of the house and senate won't even let us have a vote on it would now allow the

vote they don't want to raise the minimum wage the minimum wage is the lowest minimum wage value it has been in our nation in fifty years if we raise the minimum wage which i will do over several years to seven dollars an hour nine point two million women who are trying to raise their families were on another three thousand eight hundred dollars a year the president has to die nine point two million women three thousand eight hundred dollars a year but he doesn't hesitate to fight fraud and thirty six thousand dollars to a millionaire one percent of america got eighty nine billion dollars last year in a tax cut but people work in our play by the rules trying to take care of their kids' family values that were supposed to value so much of america i'm tired of all dozens of talk about family values and the value families what we need to do is raise the minimum wage we also need to hold on to equal pay women work for seventy six cents on the dollar for the same work that men do that's not right in america and we have an initiative

that we were working on a raised women's pay they've cut it off they've stopped that they don't force these kinds of things i think that data is a matter of fundamental right that if we raise the minimum wage 15 million americans would be positively affected we put money into the hands of people work hard will be the rules who will play for the american dream and if we did that we'd have more consumption ability in america which is what we need right now in order to protect our economy into gear i will fight tooth and nail to pass the minimum wage especially on this book on an hour minimum wage plan that i support that it would have increased a minimum wage but we talk about what's really important for the worker you're referring to and that's a measure of the education system works is to measure we raise standards is the no child left behind act is really a jobs act we think about it the no talent behind it says will raise

standards will increase federal spending but in return for extra spending we now want people to measure states and local jurisdictions the measure to show us whether or not a child can read or writer and subtract you cannot solve the problem unless you diagnose the problem and we weren't diagnosing proms and therefore just give women shuffle in the school and yes it gets shuffled through sure his parents would speak english as a first line just moved through many inner city kids just move through we stop that practice now by measuring early and we find a problem we spend extra money to correct it a memorable it in houston texas and reading as a new civil right and she's right in order make sure people have jobs for the twenty first if we got it right in the education system and we're beginning the clothes i'm a minority achievement gap now see we've never deal to compete in the twenty four century unless we have an education system that doesn't put on children an education system that raises standards and education and make sure there's

excellence in every classroom as president i'll go back to something senator kerry said earlier tonight and ask a follow up of mild he said and this will be a new question to you he said that you had never said whether you would like to overturn roe v wade so i'd ask you directly well i have a litmus test for my judges and the answer is no i will not have a litmus test i wanted judges who will interpret the constitution but i'm a litmus test sen kerry the senate now question answer question or of the center of corporate president which time when that we have ninety seconds thank you very much art well again the president didn't answer the question i'll answer straight to america i'm not going to appoint a judge to court who's going to undo a constitutional right whether it's the first amendment or the fifth amendment or some other right thats a given under our courts today and with it the cost

issue and i believe that the right of choice is a constitutional right so i don't tend to see them done i clearly the president wants to leave an ambivalence served in ten stability wanna go step further we at a long distance yet trouble in terms of fairness in america i don't know how you can govern in this country when you look at new york city in you see that fifty percent of lead blackened nails there are unemployed when you see forty percent of hispanic children and black children some cities drop in our high school and yet the president talks about no child left behind refuse to fully fund the top by twenty billion dollars that particular program say to make a difference in the lives of those young people now right here in arizona that difference would have been a hundred and thirty one million dollars to the state of arizona to help its kids here will have a better education and the list the property tax burden from it so this is

the president rene done his promise to fund no child what i don't tell you he's raise the money and he has really didn't put enmity promised and that makes a difference in the lives of our children so things one he clearly has a litmus test first judges which i disagree with and suddenly only a little senator from massachusetts would say that a forty nine percent increase in funding for education was not enough we've increased violence more importantly we reform the system to make sure that we solve problems early before the committee talk about the unemployed absolutely we gotta make sure they get educated he talked about show in his arrest or speak english as a first line was absolutely we gotta make sure they get educated mess with the no child left behind act does sen udall measured by a percentage increase president you measure by what you get a job or five hundred thousand kilns last after school programs because of your budget no that's not in my gut that's not my value system and certainly not so that the

wealthiest people in america can walk away with another tax cut eighty nine billion dollars last year to the top one percent of americans but kids lost their after school programs you be the judge all right let's go on to another question and it is to senator kerry you have two minutes or senator the last debate president bush said he did not favor of draft who agreed with him but our national guard reserve forces are being severely strained because many of them are being held beyond their investments some of them say that it's a backdoor draft is there any relief that could be offered to these brave americans and their families if you became president cemetery what would you do about this situation holding national guard and reservist for these extended periods of time in these repeated call upset they're now face well i think the fact that they're facing these repeated call up some of them

two and three deployments and there's a stop loss policy that prevents people from being able to get out when their time was up is a reflection of the bad judgment as president actress eisenhower he has engaged in the world and the blue when our forces are military is over extended nine out of ten active duty army divisions are either interact going to wrap her come back from her out one way or the other they're wrapped up and now i've proposed adding to active duty divisions to the armed forces the onstage one combat won support in addition i'm going to double the number of special forces so that we can fight it more effective war in terror was less pressure on the national guard and reserve and what i would like to do is ceo of the national guard and reserve the deployed differently here in our own country there's much we can do them with respect to homeland security we ought to be doing that and and that would leave an enormous amount of pressure but the most important thing to relieve the pressure on all of our armed forces is frankly to run a foreign policy that recognizes that america

is strongest when we're working with real alliances when we are sharing the burdens of the world by working through our statesmanship of the highest levels of our diplomacy to bring other nations to our side i've said it before i said again i believe the president broke faith of the american people in the way that he took the station the war he said he would work through the way real alliance he said in cincinnati we would plan carefully we would take every precaution well we did and the result is our forces today are overextended the fact is that he did not choose to go to war is a last resort america now staying already ordered twenty billion up to two hundred billion before we're finished a much more probably and that is the result of this present take his eye off of osama bin laden the best way to take the pressure off for troops to succeed iraqi is to train iraqi city the hard work of democracy is to give them a chance to defend their countries which

sites they were doing one hundred point five thousand troops train by the end of this year to say thanks to the reservists are there were headed overseas from tennessee and north carolina georgia some have been there before the bottle of dispersal high in the us though services a backdoor draft they do their service an opportunity to serve their country senator talks about foreign policy and our first lady proposed america pass a global test or defend ourselves we have to take it international approval as one of the major difference is we have about the thinning our country a work with allies i work with friends will continue to build strong coalitions but i will never turn over our national security system to leaders of other countries

and the resolution will be stronger wage a comprehensive war against the terrorists i have never suggested protest where we turn over our security that any nation in fact i've said the opposite i will never turn the security the united states over many nation no nation will ever have a veto over us but i think it makes sense i think most americans in their guts know that we ought to pass a sort of truce standard that's a huge gain legitimacy with your own country people and that's a gain legitimacy in the world but i'll never failed to protect the united states from mark in it neither was the raft coalition put together to run saddam hussein and kuwait the international community the international world said this is the right thing to do when it came time to authorize use of force on the senate floor my opponent voted against the use of force apparently can't pass any test under his vision best present no question two minutes you

said that if congress would vote to extend the ban on assault weapons that huge sign the legislation but you did nothing to encourage congress to extend or not i actually i am made my intentions semi my views clear at it and we are it's an assault weapons ban and was told the fact that the bill would never gonna move because republicans and democrats were against assault weapon ban people in both parties i believe law abiding citizens' army alone done i believe in background checks at gun shows or anywhere to make sure that guns don't get my hands of people it should happen the best way to protect their citizens from guns is to prosecute those who commit crimes with guns and as we're in my administration i called the attorney general and the us attorneys and said put together a task force all around the country to prosecute those who commit crimes with guns prosecutions are up by about sixty eight percent i believe is the number neighbors are safer we crack

down on people who commit crimes with guns to me that's the best way to secure american senator i believe it was the failure of presidential leadership not to reauthorize the assault weapons ban i am a hunter i'm a gun owner about otters and so as a kid twelve thirteen years old and i respect the second amendment and i will not tamper with the second amendment but i'll tell you there are some also a former law enforcement officer iran won the largest district attorney offices an american won the ten largest i put people behind bars for the rest of their life i broken up organized crime analyst and the prosecutor and most law enforcement agencies in america wanted that assault weapons that they don't want to go into a drug bust and be facing in a cave forty seven i was running in iowa last year with a sharp one the county's there he pointed allows them back of us and said see that house over there we just did a drug bust a week earlier than the guy we arrested at a naked forty

seven lying on the bed right beside because of the president's decision today law enforcement officers will walk into a place that'll be more dangerous terrorists and i'll come in to america and go to a gun show and without even a background check by an assault weapon today and that's what osama lions handle upset because we captured it in afghanistan and encouraged them to do it so i believe america is leslie that tom delay or someone in the house said to me sorry we don't have the votes it said they were going to have a fight and i've taken it out of the country not about every law enforcement officer in the country visit those congressman we have one what bill clinton won let's go to a new question for your cemetery two minutes affirmative action do you see a need for affirmative action programs or have we moved far enough along that we no longer need to use race and gender as a factor in school admissions in federal estate contract and so on i know bob regrettably we have not moved far enough along and and i regret to say that this administration has even

blocked steps that could help us move further morgan example and the eid served on the small business committee vermont and chairman of the ones now missing a democrat on we used to you know have a goal their minority status on friday encourage ownership in the country don't reach those goals the name fight to reach those goals the tribe and do the fact is that in too many parts of our country we still of discrimination and end and affirmative action is not just something that applies to people of color some people have a mistake and you have in america and it also is with respect to women as we respect other efforts to try to reach out to be inclusive in our country i think that the we have a long way to go regrettable if you look at what happened the we've made progress so i say that at the same time during the clinton years as you may recall there was a fight over affirmative action and there were many people like myself who oppose quote those who felt there were places where it was overreaching so weak at a policy called men that don't end that we've

fixed it and we fixed it for a reason because there are too many people still in this country who feel the beat the start a resistance of racism and so we have a distance to travel as president i will make certainly troubling nobody wanted to share something this president is the first president ever i think not to do that not to be within the holy city this is a president who has met with black congressional caucus this is a president who has not met with the civil rights leadership of our country if the president doesn't reach out and bring people in an inclusive then how we going to get over those various i see that as part of my job as president i'll make my best effort to do it the first of august it is just not true that i have a man with them by congressional caucus notable a congressional caucus at the white house and so

we like my employer and on we weren't quote a surgery should have closed but we i have an aggressive effort to make sure people are educated to make sure when i get out of high school if pell grants available for which is what we've done we've expanded pell grants students to realize that in america we spent seventy three billion dollars to help ten million low and middle income families better for college bessie access i believe is necessary is to make sure every child learns to read write and subtract early to build build on that education by going to college they can start their careers with a college diploma probably the best best way to help for small businesses is now in three small business loans which we have increased since i've been the president our states but the unbundled government contracts of people have a chance to be able to bed and receive a contract to help get their business going minority ownership of businesses are out because we create an environment for the entrepreneurial spirit to be strong

either ugly part of the hopefuls a size one which somebody on something today in america more minorities own a home than ever before and that's how and that's how it was going to question you're asking for the invasion or after the invasion of iraq if you checked with you day and i believe i don't remember the quote exactly but i believe you said you check with a higher authority i would like to ask you i don't want partners your faith play on your policy decisions first my faith plays a lot of big part of my life and that's when i was answering that question whether it's really saying to the person was that i pray a lot and i did in my faith is a very very personal i pray for strength to pray for wisdom i pray for troops in harm's way i pray for my family pray from old girls

but i might fall in a free society that people can worship if they won or not be going american if you choose the worst that almighty images not fear christians your muslim you're equally american it's a great thing about america is the right to worship the way you see fit farrow sustain me every seat columnist in the storms of the presidency i love the fact that people pray for me and my family or in the country some estimate at you know i said just for your religion is important for an alarm goes my little anybody else when i make decisions as down principal and the principles are derived from who i am i believe we all love our neighbor like we love

yourself is manifest and public policy through the faith based initiative where we've unleashed the armies of compassion to help seal heal people over i believe that god wants everybody to be free that's what i believe and that's when parliament foreign policy and afghanistan i believe that the freedom there is a gift from the almighty and i can't pay and kurdistan to see freedom on the margins so my principles i make decisions on our part main religions a part of me cemetery or respect everything that the president of serbia and certainly respect his faith i think it's important and i share it i think that if he just said that freedom is a gift from the almighty everything is a gift from the almighty and as i measure the words of the bible and we all do different people measure driven things stick

around the tora bora you know native americans and gave me a blessing the other day i had their own special sense of connectedness to a higher being and people will find their ways to express and i was taught literature at school and i was taught that the two greatest commandments are love the lord your god with all your mind and body and your soul and love your neighbor as yourself and frankly i think we have a lot more loving our neighbor to do in this country and on this planet that we have a separate and unequal school system in the united states of america others one for the people who have been his one for the people who don't have who were struggling with that today the present i have a difference of opinion about how we live out aren't our sense of our faith i talked about it earlier when i talked about the works and faith without works being dead i didn't go out or work today and as president i will always respect everybody's right to practice religion as the jews or not to practice

because that's part of american cemetery after nine eleven and this is a new question for you it seemed to me that the country came together as i'd never seen it come together since world war two with some of that seems to have melted away i think it's fair to say we become pretty pretty polarized perhaps because of the political season but if you're like depressed and or whoever is elected president when you send a party and trying to bring the nation back together or what would be your attitude over about soul a limited government to the president and they are i think in those days after nine eleven i thought president did a terrific job and i really was moved as well as impressed by the speech that he gave to the congress and i think the hard time that you're given at that moment was about as genuine a sense of their being no democrats no republicans were all just

americans that's where we were less are where we are today and i regret to say that the president do call themselves the united not a divider is now presiding over the most divided america in recent memory of our country i know or seen such ideological squabbles in congress of united states i've never seen members of the party locked out of meetings where they're locked out today with to change that and as president i am committed to changing that and it i i don't care who is the idea comes in the other side of this i'd i think we have to come together and work to change and i've done that over twenty years in the united states senate have worked with john mccain who's sitting here i've worked with other colleagues i've reached across the aisle i tried to find the common ground because that's what makes us stronger as americans and of americans trust me with the presidency i can pledge to you will have the most significant effort openly not secret meetings in the white house with special interests

not ideologically driven efforts to push people aside but a genuine effort to try to restore america's hope and possibilities by bringing people together and one of the ways that they do it is i mean i work with my friend john mccain to further campaign finance reform so we get these incredible amounts of money out of the system and open it up the average people so america's really represented by the people who make up america as president my biggest disappointment were soon as the ports in the town has had a record of working with that republicans and democrats as governor of texas and i was hopeful bill would do the same thing and we made good progress early on no child left behind act incredibly enough was was that worked fine me and my administration people like senator ted kennedy and we work together with democrats to really the tax burden on the middle class and on pay taxes or make sure this economy continues to grow but washington is that

the way i view this as a lot of entrenched special interests here people or bomb was so the issue or another least an enormous sums of money and they convinced other senators to tout their way or different person and talk about their issues and they began i'll continue in the four years to continue to try to work to deserve the map or services a bitterly divided time pretty divided in the two thousand election so a word since pretty divided during the nineteen nineties as well which is a period where there were to prevail upon keep mentioning john mccain and i'm and when he did john mccain is for me for president because he understands i had the right view and winning the war on terror and that my plan will succeed the rack em up on his got a plan of retreat and defeat interaction we've come down to our last question and it occurred to me as i came to this debate tonight that the three of us

share something all three of the stairs surrounded by very strong women who were all married to strong women each of us have two daughters the bike is very proud of like that ask each of you what is the most important thing you've learned from the strong want to listen to him to stand up straight not spell my love of strong women around kicked a lot a lot more than her daughter's i am i'm not really a secular people on the campaign trail when i have sort of religious id find the songs are never have to give a speech so ok you get a deal for soliciting homely to that deal if he's out campaigning along with her girls and there he speaks english or bitter

neither people understand what you say and why but they say a compassionate strong great first lady laura bush detail again when i met her in the backyard a jail in general neal in midland texas classic backyard barbecue grill say come on over think you'll find somebody who might interest you says art world over there there's only four of the ceremony she officially issued say was love at first sight senator well i guess the president and ui or three examples of like the people who married out of that and some would say maybe needs more soul of others can i say if

i could just say a word about a woman that you didn't ask about but that my mom passed away a couple years ago and just before i was deciding to run and then she was in law school and i went in to talk to her and tell us the inability and she looked at a former us will then she just looked at me and she said this remember integrity integrity integrity was of the three words that she let me live and my daughters and my wife are people who just are filled with that sense of what's right what's wrong they also kicking around me i was going to get away with anything i can sometimes take myself too seriously they surely will i believe that and i'm blessed because i think the president is blessed as i said last time and watched and with the first lady you admire great deal of his daughters is a great father and i think we're both very lucky little and that

raises the closing statements of dysentery ugly cure for my fellow americans as you heard from bob schaffer a moment ago america's being tested by division more than ever that we need to be united as a country and like franklin roosevelt i don't care whether nine years the republican id or a democrat idea i just care whether works for america and whether it's going to make us stronger these are dangerous times i believe i offer tested strong leadership that didn't calm the waters of the troubled world and i believe that we can together do things that are within the grasp of americans would lift our schools up we can create jobs pay more than the jobs were losing overseas we can't have health care for all americans we can further the cause of equality in our nation let me just make it clear i will never

allow any country that of the tovar security just as i fought for our country as a young man with the same passion i will fight to defend the station that i love and with faith in god and with conviction in the mission of america i believe that we can reach higher i believe we can do better i think the greatest possibilities of our country our dreams our hopes are out there just waiting for us to grab on to them and i ask you to embark on that journey with may i ask you for your trust i ask if your help i ask you to allow me the privilege of leading this great nation of ours and helping us to be stronger here at home and be respected again in the world and most of all to be safer for ever thank you good night and god bless the united states of america until officers a painting by friend of war my

name but calmly it's a west texas painting in a man's semen he said this of isis are a little nice other man's sunrise signed up to sunset side it's a sight to see the day that is coming out to see the day that has gone i love the optimism in that painting could that's how i feel about america you are going to walk together during the last three three quarters years we've come to a recession the stock market decline an attack on our country and yet because the hard work of the american people and the policy says economy is growing over the next four years will make sure the economy continues to grow we were former school system another's achievement gap in america's beginning to close over the next four years will continue to consistent excellence in every classroom in america so that our children have a chance to realize the great promise of america over the next four years will continue to work to make sure health care is available and affordable

over the next four years will continue to rally the armies of compassion to help heal the hurt that exists over countries neighborhoods i'm optimistic that were when the war on terror but i understand a recourse farmers often clear purpose we must never waver in the face of this animated these ideologues of hate and as we pursue the enemy where it exists will also spread freedom and liberty we go great faith in the ability of liberty to transform societies to convert fossil hostile world to a peaceful world now for america as a prosperous america hopeful america and safer world war thank you for listening tonight i'm asking for your vote god bless you thank you must present thank you sign to carry well that brings these debates to a close but the campaign goes on i wanna wish both of you the very best of luck but we

now on election day that's it for us from arizona state university and template arizona i'm bob schieffer of cbs news if they're we have in the third and final debate between president bush and senator kerry can schieffer of cbs news brought in almost right on the money and thirty twenty questions you're asked to in each other's bob schieffer now right now the families who come up on the stage the bush daughters and gentleman knows the perry family and there are different situations where the

debate last week we had the town all thing and not a large audience people the people in the case of navy voters are allowed to shake hands with the candidates and have them themselves they will not be the case with the knife as it is not the case in miami in the first of a security reasons why families are they now carry family as well and us any good columnist mark shields and new york times columnist david brooks are are here once again and i've been here all evening so again i ask you the question david what happened tonight above to better than he's done and i think he's pro wrestling a matter of john kerry's been pretty consistent

so i'm not the one they both did reasonably well i guess i'm a few observations another debate their two men here with long records in public life to me the questions were mostly on bush's record and so they're made our friend and for him to go on the offensive and he was mostly on the fence with it handles pretty well but i'm at harvard and it's your turn things around the second population i would make is that when every question was about how you pay for this both candidates thought it was just like there is on the dodgers now they're so that that i mean the american people have a clear view of two candidates with big promises and no can comfort no not even an inkling of realistic plan to pay for any of that stuff for bookings guess when you think that i i don't know you at all of the point that you know especially last point their ob gyn the question was did john kerry i have more to critique any of that vision there were there were times it flashes of it i don't think about all that was the vatican system i thought too at the end of his conclusion that

he did get a little visionary our which it has not been which have been absent the irony of the three debates is that john kerry add the bush folks want the national security first and that you think that there was a strong so that's were john kerry is there with disabilities get back into the race that now gordon the last debate that the conventional wisdom was well boys is that they're democrats alec i agree with david i think it was probably the president's best showing i don't get out of the three i thought is that kerry was factual was organized it was concise he was competent in his poised all of those things i am but he did not show any flashes humor and delivery and you know the day when he really talked about sometimes i take myself too seriously any any smiled and there was almost a knowing recognition scene of the hall or anybody knows that certainly has been one of the effects that i i thought

that i thought the president the answer especially gym on that on the question of what women did i thought was probably the most natural an end and unaffected of all i thought the president's unprepared for the for the flu vaccine question and then they carry immediately launched into the incident and watched interested in the point program on health care but only on the issues of crucial things aside david denby steady course the eu already said that they really need or answer the question about a pain for all of this but how did you feel on a positive side that where where was where was bush the strongest on the issues of those strollers and education it's a subject i think he knows the most about and cares most about i think again this is a strong answers in rural iowa how one the estimate jobs which is to meal of the record education is the key to economic growth and jobs the care was strongest on the minimum wage is good answer was sort of an easy answer for but he had to know his strength i would say this the big subjects fiscal policy that a

terribly as they got too much more subjects but the smaller subjects of education roe v wade care was very minimal weapons assault assault weapons ban they get better and better and smaller median size of raneri mr conley even on the weapons saying we had expected at me sitting here as i said to you all along that you care ward mentioned today's endorsement of the national run by the national rifle association the president but that he did not he didn't we didn't surprise you well suggested to me that they're that they're still competitive in states like the national rifle association is a positive for an endorsement and that they would not prefer i like that it kind of surprised me and your the fact that kerry the rest of the steam economically boy he came back very hard at the president's tax policy and the idea that he was there he was already i thought kerry's best answer by far was on that was on the assault weapons the president made off with bob schieffer is quoted on john why did you it's a good sign and wanting to lift a finger to do it so willie told me in

congress they didn't have the votes to do it and it's i would've gone to tom delay and some of the fight will go on the country and this i thought that was probably carries best what do you think president bush is but i was not i thought the press that the president didn't well i'm on issues personally and i thought i thought i thought he did well and on education and it will begin the education was tying it i was it was a question of the minimum wage or to canada they'd often minimum wage immediately went back to that buddy please return it was the first time really in this campaign never to return to the compassion and i can actually conservative i mean that that the which i've always thought was his most appealing characteristic in the whole two thousand race in that it took them out of sort of the southwestern sun belt conservative and and made him a different kind of republican he did that tonight you get an education you get izzy talked about aid to minority students who did the best in you that in your opinion and keeping the other candidate on the defense and number two is the best way the best

opera still a precedent for the frame of a little floater to bush's defense i would say the thing he boasted critically well though was on it getting back to kerry's record saying the refugee talks his rhetoric at the record and sporty did come back to i think one thing which doesn't care does not do is he she gets things that he draws into the debate other a couple things before the first thing is the rhetoric of the sport isn't supported by the record that's one thing the second thing was just as out of the mainstream kerry always has nine or ten different facts in honor of different points but i think as a debater his weekend drawing them into a fee you agreed i think it yeah it carries far more factual and it was funny that that every job in arizona been thirteen thousand seven hundred dollars less than what debt with vintage ugly place that that that said the nine point two million american mothers were don't get a minimum wage what what that means in their lives but i it like how does that libel senator massachusetts on the mainstream big taxer no record of leadership and the president kept their returning

to that the president still is is just sort of little pollyannish on the subject of iraq i and all freedoms on the north koreans on the mall and you know i think that is a question jim if the american people to believe that the president says a lot of what you see on television i said look i don't go i now want to take a longer view on tonight's debate and that would not why not to get a sense of what the history books might say about tonight and the impact of the entire two thousand for series a debate we're joined by presidential historian michael beschloss richard norton smith director of the lincoln library and museum and ellen fitzpatrick professor of history at the university of new hampshire so let's take the long view now that these three d presidential debates are over before everyone we said this is going to be the turning point now we take this the long view and michael how does this compare to previous series of debates we've seen well you know one thing that strikes me more than

anything else is this if you think about the last five presidents before george w bush three of them were defeated for reelection show for jimmy carter george h w bush that's exactly within the period in which we've had debates since nineteen seventy six and i think what is really struck me more than anything else was the fact that this has changed our political system that gives challengers a leg up against an incumbent president of the kind that we didn't have for most of american history if john kerry's elected in three weeks i think many people will say he couldn't have done it without the ability to today george w bush was your sense that these debates compare to past years i think it's the it's pretty hard as a historian not to walk away from it without thinking it's deja vu all over again that is if you take a really long view when you go back to nineteen sixty one we have the beginnings of these debates the domestic issues for example that were highlighted tonight are very much the same kinds of issues that were being debated by kennedy and

nixon health care social provision kennedy and nixon had a long discourse around the issue of providing health insurance for americans and nixon for trade kennedy's planners six dream as an overreach of the federal government can and he defended it not as big government but really as the nation taking responsibility for its innocence what was the program that they were sparring about medicare so it's very hard when you think about these debates all together obviously the foreign policy issues are different they're different social and cultural and valuations the debate about abortion gay rights those things have changed a man say nothing's changed but so much of this is consistent minimum wage jobs education for one thing it shows is how persistent these problems of them richard did it sound terribly familiar to you as well i don't

know that sound familiar and i just thought you know it's easy to be jaded i think these three debates have been very substantive than informative we've seen big issues discussed broad themes rock and i think they've been very informative debates i mean michael's point is well taken no you know there is this burden on the incumbent in effect he is a defender of the status quo and people in america loves new menino us what the consequences of the new but what is a concept knew was pretty attractive and i tell you saw tonight john kerry in fact flying the john f kennedy role and everything is interesting is although the media reports we're women and that specific richard and an internal massey which you mean that airplane mechanic kenny well because i think would on a candidate in nineteen sixty it was a specific moment in those debates we are weak we look the gaps we look at the statements now we've zero in on on

those specific moment and we think that those are what actually sway voters what john kennedy did in nineteen sixty and i would i do what john kerry carries we try to do is at a cumulative process over three debates he's introducing himself carefully incrementally establishing his credibility and his alternative philosophy his style of leadership he's getting the voters comfortable with who he is as a man and as a president that isn't something you do in a soundbite or even in a single debate we'll know in three weeks if it were my close up the kind of thing that would that has worked in the past it has about that especially worth issue like yes i did disagree with richard rosenfeld too confining these two minute answers they end up being a long the sun soundbites oftentimes accounts recycling language that they've been using on the campaign trail that seems to work with audiences oftentimes of assets that defended it never ends up actually it has been different if you look at the text of the debates before i think this year more than ever

before we sing language used over and over again from debate a debate sometimes within a debate you'll hear the same thing said twice by the same candidates you know really feels that you're getting beyond the surface and that was the point of these things to begin with not just to give a big audience to a candidate to deliver his best law school and he talks about some of the issues which he claimed that time at the time when i was interesting to have the candidates debating about education the size of the increase is unity is what they're fighting them not doing away with the department generally has used to be that a day right but it still is very much a question about what is the responsibility of the federal government and what is the responsibility of not only states and localities but families and parrots and i think you do have two very different visions here even though the democrats' over though since really the reagan years have backed away enormously from the fundamental tenants of american liberalism in endorsing then in those terms

you notice how little we hear about the city's about anti poverty programs it's about the middle class now and the way which it is squeezed economically and so i think these debates continue on the john f kennedy comparison one interesting thing i think is that one thing kerry did tonight which kennedy did with kennedy very explicitly in those debates spoke to the nation you look down at the camera and addressed his remarks to the american people and nixon was later criticized for being having a tendency to speak to his opponent more than to the nation so kerry capitalized on that tonight richard can i ask a little bit about the culture wars coups that seems to come back in a different form every for years this bitter night before was that out a little bit about gay marriage he talked a lot about faith and religion quite a bit actually is not something which is new or is that just a recycled version of debates we've seen before no i think it's a

it's something that has been with us for a long time more central to our politics than at any time in any generation but if you go back to ronald reagan in nineteen eighty jimmy carter jimmy carter in nineteen seventy six a promoting himself as a born again christian he was also i was i was struck by something that the that this president bush tried to do tonight and indeed has tried to do the last couple debate reminiscent of what his father did very effectively in nineteen eighty eight and has it goes to these issues remember michael dukakis of famously said that this was an election about competence not ideology or ideologies a euphemism but dig deeper cultural values and the first president bush managed really kind of turned the corner by turning those words against michael dukakis you see an actual that in the repeated don't buy this president bush to in effect turn carries own record that he defines it against michael you're the washingtonian at the table toward the end of the debate

are you know with that have printed late night john kerry said he's never seen such any logical squabbles as deep as as they are now in congress you're right it's a better atmosphere and i think this is another thing about these three debates between these presidential candidates these were icy debates there was very little humor there sure was very little humor between the two guys and i think if you compare that for instance to reagan and mondale and even the moments of carter and reagan in nineteen eighty it shows how much our political culture has changed to the sort of take no prisoners attitude between the two sides in a way these debates are not a very good harbinger of this country getting a little bit more united and some talked about how either polarization issues well you know i think it's quite remarkable tonight the emphasis on religion that is the importance that both candidates took pains to tell their audience to tell the american people that they're deeply religious remember nineteen sixty when kennedy was running as a catholic he

took pains to say that his religion didn't matter to the fact that he was running for president the candidates are taking pains to say it does matter and so they're tapping into and i think shaping a very different cultural unarmed the final word from here richard i i guess i never just do a thoughtful substantive and heated discussion that's what democracy's all out okay richard moore is that michael beschloss alan fitzpatrick thank you this psychic glenn and once again before we go to mark shields and david brooks are picking up on the point that alan fitzpatrick made a moment ago you think it if somebody watched all three of these presidential debates and the vice presidential debate all for that they would come away with a good solid substantial understanding of the real differences between these two

men on issues i think i think they would do and i think they are the differences are pretty stark i am a areas i thought dad would play gail and made about how little mention was made of the poor and that's and that's a deliberate tactic by kerry to be the middle class that could be the middle class but i know it is a pretty epic that doesn't get it because it is a clear sense of the difference between the two parties but because again i'm not a pretty murky sense of what each would do and how they get re elected if political academic and a candy cane which choice is more risky to keep the to keep watch and diplomatically domestically and internationally want to switch to carry on in that that's sort of what the question before the house right now how would you how would you answer questions in some ways it has an exaggerated sense of the difference between the two if

someone had an office that there are differences but in office when confronted the concrete realities are up with a concrete realities that define the budget on capitol hill would be less differences that senators today but i would say that and i think most americans are looking at the selection more so than past elections as a character test that you think you would get a difference and slightly different sense of the characters in the country i think one of the issues we're gonna go forward for the next couple weeks is the issue of likeability there is one area where john kerry is his weakest is the is he like billy was the next four years that i am your living room and then bush has this as this relationship american people which is so polarized but i do think a one way conduit not help themselves to my wallet was except for that last question a was to demonstrate some humanity the people that say okay i wanna be with the schedule forty and you see that how the same plays out now they take on all the debates and with that slightly more than two weeks before election day with it what would one of the things that my family does anything come out on this debate and the sadness

the fifteen asia human initiative to be doing a lot of what i think that i think the kerry has passed that he's not going to ever be as likable it's not comparative it's what he's done the unlikable and i think these past the i'm like he's a likable it is easy somebody if he had two tickets to a cardinals astros game be a good column probably not ah but daddy we've had a number of presidents i don't have to name them in recent years one the white house and unconvincing fashion who probably would've got a call from many of us either not so much but i think so i think it's a little different than it was for example and in two thousand i think the sausage very thing gm is a perfect example of where we are revealing is headed for crisis on it there's no doubt about the baby boomers retiring yeah get in and when they happen the last time was twenty years ago while he was president willing to go to danny rostenkowski the democratic side chicago politician to get things done guy in and negotiate

and end the house they could negotiate between tip o'neill a democrat and bob michel republican leader and that void that that atmosphere is totally the sea i don't care how big a crisis a big that the disaster we have what is that an example of something that these guys forged over complete level but when a crisis comes at one i was going to have to solve it and now an and they well that doesn't ring a lot and at the end of that on that i have to deal with and they will be aware that there was a cry about it and maybe their start on the campaign trail john talk about the tough choices but if you ask me if you're my guess about these two guys to meet in home prices the spending that's going tale of the baby boomers coming is the big domestic issue i do not believe you're these guys really has the drive it'll take to totally shake that age and they did not provide a choice and they didn't you know i didn't you know i think george would have a hint to one with a sauce true reform i think that it's a little there that john kerry actually nothing but i would say if you're everything about atone for my wants to be helpful to leather or for the next four

years and follow up on what richard said mark before we go home or do you think these and how helpful do you think in general terms he used debates were well i think i think they are helpful to the challenger challenger is because the challenger audition before the american people that they don't get the president by virtue of being the president to command that kenna national attention i don't they're enormously important and portman this and the selection jim within a very very small sort of petty election i think the charges back and forth in the television ads and so it i think i think they are they shouldn't be the only thing people live bush's advice for six points now is that even more important to get an unmarked thank you both very much and that doesn't it for now that will see you online and our regular news our time tomorrow evening with more discretion more analysis and reaction to tonight's debate for now from washington i'm jim lehrer thank you and goodnight

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