Soul!; 54; Conversation between Giovanni and Baldwin. Part 2

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thank you joe and remaining an ellis case that the producers sell and i welcome you to the second half this conversation between nikki giovanni and james baldwin as i mentioned last week we take this interview in london recently and edited it but showing that this time you'll see and hear two very good and much love the black writers thinking questioning him exchanging ideas with all the eloquence and wit and passion that have brought them to nashville and indeed international a prominence so now let's resume his diary all this conversation between nikki giovanni and james baldwin how do we as a people begin to do do you want to do as a very developed to appeal wrote of a political job when jeff what attitudes began to change basin which people think for government initiative base of the language

of the way people speak is also really think he was you know being a black americans of things were white americans that's unless given and we had to use it and designed with a budget not been done before you know when we're in recovery of the great advantage of knowing when they talk law man who meant a man gobbling up father son mother daughter but we know we are it's either liberate my great nephews give back and to liberate themselves as his views on immigration there were two great prizes in the land of the month there is but it's an idea that's in power and we will get it cannot purchase anything you can take we'll get done and we'll get done now is not the lane of the money

behind them has the ability to effect but now you are agreeing with me of course you were in a lesbian her distance of the afro american center last twenty years is that we recognize we're not americans on one here on the other hand we are the only juliet he's gotten an intractable long as i still outside member of lessons about interview about you again but we continued to play the ways that one can quite see this we already have it swept through the effect yet from we have to know it and additionally anybody and we had to change it the south lost the civil war but they didn't know which is why they continued resentment that is if you know you lost and who didn't now i mean they continue to act as if they didn't know they still haven't lost because that war was going to lead the results of the war are being paid for and today it will

be paid for in march a montgomery a lawless had the confederate flag flying say from the capitol building which is legally insurrection but nobody's ever wondered about that goes in fact this album authentic the contract between them keep union slavery but all that really happened so the exile movement as in the masters is that region and guardians of it weren't aware of exiles come from years of mississippi but he's only institutions to me and i ended up serving institutions like it just doesn't make an increasing criticism is in congress hasn't matured took as it was when it was a white but a really really alter ego going to china because that will send things at certain color designations of that broke is senator massachusetts olivia some black mayors says doesn't change in mission the agenda particular to represent isn't anything

and they can sell it at a black man and it gave them not quite as they set up and they didn't seem to get to like me because he knew that in that case there is a great deal every black american any change which i think constantly changing out the police department change the way that the city goes so many services that we could have something but if he's that could change if the first modern militia which is next into to make those changes and who's not willing to cede taken and can act that is not doing that and i'm in your own country where swans as one of the non muslim has a long history of a gun is not a member of the same but you know that i do know that we have paid too much

for a debate would abandon the chain can never abandon it and that's interesting because we're us and vinegar and a nobody as one system is an indication that he's likable amid all this was pretty much what i ate and that when only twenty this case that i deserve it needed to do whatever i want to do with that thomas d sense that you know what whatever that means i think that like how we go about it and what we're on when a person enters that interested in the things that people are interested in and that interested in the president our congress i went to a puerto rican yawning and i wouldn't hear and that i just don't get the day because it's still somebody tran or an iphone and it just because i think that i would have a difficult time for me except to go next music detective that type of that there on it as it

began to come back into question of no labels widened back on it i don't have also commissar i use i live near you know to get the more frightening it you know i actually write about that that's an assistant that is the road that into sort of like intelligent and down reconstruction which is awful ms rudolph and to say things like that but there's something stupid people the divides that solutions to be right a weekly so really really rich people closer to the caring in the window and gary's involved that when the pressure

that they forgo lot for your life unpleasant you have a monster they were doing the right thing but in a magazine writers years ago because it's not based on it was you know just like a very weak position to begin to disappear were in a statement they didn't offer me you were you aware that there were going to hold and there's no such thing as individual which of course is a gentleman was learning that it's killing the movement and when you see the dumb bombs perpetuating that you don't want to be like them so the right people are saying ok you walk in here and i too much emphasis destroyed but was almost at one point in the show you know it's not the crew because of the storm and i'm the tribal they know that they did go away i wanted to do was i grew up is essentially

not beside russo big toes at joe you know and i know the individual doesn't exist it should and though he's well it sure he does i'm concerned about ideas for the company because there's so many young kids who want to be and for me when i look at like the ingenuity of school and when i look at my various glands as a few times at it and i see those hopeful little faces and i know that they are just as eager to become you know fascists as anything else that they don't know what they want is to be me then i begin to feel an obligation is okay try believing in yourself and you go oh my god i could you do not think the same thing and exactly the same thing what was trying to do is a chief so children some unwittingly much much later

leisure they really believe you know the elections which are not being fed you know the lack of the lack of beautiful but says given the say so no ego is most of one thing about exemplified and beauty says reading this london avenue no re gather in long we've added that black people really no limits and dickinson and preaches and congressmen and judges and teaches law is no black but not i mean words you try to tell a child something which is which transcend those caterpillars italy will become what you see all around you every day but i have to go with because it they're counseling them to be seventy today the difference in

technology energy which makes no sense to me because why should somebody who doesn't even know you were in your life you're invited amundsen kids and at the end of the quote to me and i feel like wow i would be the best that the west abandoned at it you do it you can make your own states yet we have security division tomorrow july when track no cause i really see something against the man that creative stupid stupid people he was so yes most people they set the limit question assumptions of a given but they must know that when i was growing up the great trick was good news of a service america both with that yemen was we don't really do it made him very unattractive people from the white house was a black dude comedian began creating an issue

however you get out of low ability well that of the regular math was a one out of necessity out of yourself to do it not readable wage attractive a pretty radical lot today but eliminated a posting is an outpost of things bicycles is tremendous tremendous book one day live one black man and a black family that i'm not you know is it true test a record major the drama and the sense is that you have all that you raise a child of ivan is to avoid home you go one way i got another initiative was

amazing was no question of blame it's that inspired him to yemen is that it was at that moment when i'm going to get panicky is it going to take the responsibility to be able to sponsor these islands to collapse some eyes that they know when i can get you in the streets and let's say we're trying to make you able to pay your rent american iran we have found that there are not enough jobs there's not enough money for you to do this i won't do it we try it my way i think that the only thing that's changed in the less sentimental dickinson seductive before they'd only thing has really changed the black woman and then when she auditioned for most part i think she's changed because it was a ten to say my mother young in the eyes of these i think they would say ok that's the way you step vision i'm gonna go for me and my generation says we don't know what it you know is that his

base of internet and realize that a new base please stand him and we can vote as a woman about imagine are demanding the name is weekend edition for density that gives you that suggests that you doing ok cynthia lane and i don't think that's asking too much because if i wanted a provision in a salad you know anything that provides the dod and you get our army surplus get that provides and onion and an end blackmon and i have always been offered to provisions that have to be that way that when this kind of law but it had to be that way because sometimes you're not able to feed your family sometimes you're not able to talk to anybody and then also be proud of them

i'm liane hansen yeah with it with anything other you're talking i agree with us to that but it's one thing is usually you see you have we use your future of a bloody and institutional future tall you are it is incumbent as the future of an elemental you in some sense make sense and i know that you get is going to be alive tomorrow in some way make sense that it would be there but it doesn't make any sense and i don't see anything coming out of that all the ed kidnapping if your welfare you know you land there that's an all knowing about them that was what i really mean is it yes langbehn do that in the seas a reader away the seas that i mean something my father couldn't see that he was quite right group the mother wasn't anything

there's something because our liking on i know that works in the world is a relationship with a cane that that's all the skin where it takes two people to have the lady of a limited the militia you've got to think it because we don't have dreams these days how they're helping you have a dream for what is that's everybody's everybody's journalist job on that level of i love you have an idea second nominee and you know if you love me and you got someplace he lives in the us what they're likely about the true that if you're there when billy holiday session and unexplained it drew twenty million years when he's not a bad record and the gap red snow sheep breeders aiming you were treating an attempt to do was a copy of the friends and the anger

the review doesn't know you're at the name of a low income like it you know because i love you and it nice that you add it at the very minimum once a month they get with me is at to measure the black woman task of the black man for ten years so that we can get a job on history that's a father's founded mother he talked to me about school today you can read again we must americans can we most people can't read they look at the pictures at baby unnoticed safe and no i don't disagree that load was the un reroute an official that human possibility james bay maybe you choose

i can't you'll form of solem job and continue reforms on cuomo knobs one of the performances was yes so you say ok i'm only way to go it was going to pay rent okay being home going to play in a way that you'd see my point of view the price of humans must go on which a prostitute he said i can name alone it about ideas of you know what was going to work and you work and you will work it out because you are intelligent enough and you are sensitive enough you are a man enough to work out a new system because it we started off with everybody's book is now along with that there again as long as the assumptions others say nothing will change again we must call ourselves tonight a new us

sanctions in case it was sort of like left up in the air or somebody like adding get across i really think that my father you know gene and giovanni is improving care you know and he's livid my mother now for thirty five years and only with luck and i think it does good for them and i think that sort of thing were beef and then there's the main thing that they were able to live despite all this is available in the year you barely knew that yeah i think cities and one night ha ha not a cow let's talk about writing for a moment because it seems that most of the black writers at certain points always come back too explaining who they are they always come back to the person and say you've written several novels one that i happen to love the lies is to lean on the train and the takeaway that i just i just the man to navigate

copies to run again in paperback i could afford to do but i didn't let it see that even though we deal in the novel given fictional human poetry say wasn't connect to say oh you know where we built a train loading that was going right here that's your question as your question question is tomorrow's question for me was a moment in and the bar in new york state when viewers watching jerry and watching an old ruta who just come to america and using stem cells salvatore mr gehrke because he just didn't affect already insolvent or his imagination you know many in the

illicit jerry because like really insulting but no one thinks rio is i don't exists in anybody's imagination you know in a public reason you're forced to become more and more open all over all over it is doesn't that window you're going the street in batman and black men black women who you know like my sister a mother and a very well people looking into the interview with the book about nothing at all know if it's marilyn monroe nixon they know that

and two the century begins apprehend the experience and which really more homegrown fuel for example or novelists owe you all alone isn't always a fragment the wide wide he will only jobs they don't know what that comes out there's a metaphor in that experience for all the medical and their own experience is a deeply buried as if it was a few cities and buildings of only white is unusable not to be back because i'm going to be what is likely just symbolized ending back in june that is an object to be apprehended knew it that in fact i love in the walk the streets i mean look at you you had me going to only do in all troubled eighth day today if we were us allies no one remembers them to

civilization i mean it i mean you literally the african civilizational and intimidation or whenever i mean a sense of life which is always you know symbolizes anybody which are about commercial reasons religious opening whereas in europe attempted to destroy ten bidders rather than on facts for that dispersed it and on the pressure that began to become something else when it comes to design civilized way the thing which may not you know was a principle which europeans are earned mistrust let's say in a sense to sort of on one level and because that can be slow sometimes not so one another john has made is that as a dirty chicken that people have had has the odd that do you think that you would ever writes a house a work of fiction

i mean even a work of nonfiction that did not include white voters the best movie that he did it to images of characters in terms of really speaking to unwind it is i mean you want to do well and answers and were you a standing ovation mitch mcconnell's place was party's base in europe and it's going to increasingly concerned the situation in france now in that and i thought oh no no the art is certainly a really good friends

all you would be a puerto rican in new york it's ridiculously inefficient oh yeah there is lavish anyway the price of this age no an isolated entity that is the new doom buried his troops not merely officers in that as you said for most moran bricks to do homework and he was working at the legendary too no legal immigration bill and writing what writers always doing whether it knows it is a it is one source who has there's i think that's where you know you can work your consumption that you had worked and what you discover all known unknown assumptions kimonos in which deepened the new it takes a long time

for you realize that there is a connection between come along jason vaughn in swingers which i know of a job the dreary two new albums on their green period until about his hands on and good our experience and you know all of it and then walk in wow that's that's what i mean i think that that that the two minutes thirty assignment of all it's for the people who produced and i'm not responsible to everybody but the people who produced them you know whether they knew they produce we want to talk salt the mood is hidden and to do something which they knew where i knew that i might be able to do you know

the name yeah but they're so and i keep coming back to this kind of thing that there's a whole movement of something this is that we have to write only about black people think we have to you know i mean that that there's a little thing this is a character singer ryan has to face is louis county told you about it have eroded away unknown and it is known in his actions to the madison i chose it crashed in fact the absent that we didn't use it the money that is try to tell the truth and what overlooks is it murder do it when the book and that it may hit it may hurt you but donovan to have had me first

you know i want to tell you about yourself raise about myself the air is having everybody who's tried new goals you like a long time to get to know those of the us government and then you realize you need something you hear something you realize that is suffering does not isolate you this every major bridge that many people have suffered for you baby was something around you and always will be and all you can do is bring that hopefully a liking to that separate and a fly so the person who is suffering can begin to comprehend to separate community that you know change

change situation we don't change anything or lose and that's people in them are out to change it for themselves and on pursuing this because it's something that keeps coming up the best managed in that you say that the same idea that i agree with is that the same it easy on to say why should a writer the free to write what he wants when say a teacher is not free to teach what he wants are at our culture who has now created teach is your teacher and i was going to teach the way i see it ended in this is precisely and trouble novel is nonsense of the reasons given by those impeccable honorable men i've got in california and head of the fbi not that any of those reasons but because she was trying to teach and to teach in the situation which

by people are to find themselves ready to teach is a revolutionary act the dc suburb of visits i think epa and ellison weist fashioned artist the freedom to nobody else's doesn't really want loans really has been ineffective and should pursue hundred then and that's where i never really <unk> is presumably so something calming about the development say of the whole black literature train can say richard wright thomas singing yeah it's good i'm going to give it to you and fifth avenue all justice just

as exciting because we go from say one just forgot to say i'm like a jedi knight on iran the first additionally they were paid for and simply adored it and i could see where they eat it i'll make a confession the book heroes were political and cruz tonight show i am going through changes and also it was really i was in a kind of global crisis because i've been kind of this you know whatever and i learned to do missouri's

be and ideally the outside ai weiwei edition of crazy unidentified man but since the book in a sense for me had no moral of thing goes badly privately you know he is knowledge is so you know his body was in a sense in a sense the only aviation writer he was also a terrible flat knew just who lost their lives with low incomes were also after all americans he says the combination of human clothes they were wearing you know and all of that common interaction to both jazz and richard innocent and that we didn't know where

it's a question of generations in this generation that he had to be a man myself in another context and says i was options in effect of the second row were world war the arm you know income is boggs rid of an organization in a sense at them and the bad situation in different to there was a wave of all for black renaissance poet i'd split over whether or not to be dead and no figured out and stones a paris economy now rigid lepage maine this testimony you about a time they were metal the scene again image as some warning about we read about a wreath at a character that was that was some truth

know which a boy twenty ones who i was then had to fight it he was going to live on you know you know what you couldn't accept was that pain you can accept that as being your president and so more your future you know you had to find some way of dealing with that of dealing with it and to do it and you had to raise your life you know then a risk at all that evolved bro you know which suggest that you now ikea see now i said well richard about chester one of the extant well we believed it was welcoming douglas kiker not too that when i was twenty you know twenty years

which you see they were in on one level simply more exalted good to this the ornamental and noble quality really made no idea what happened and everybody us financial future you know and it takes a long time before you accept what has been given to you from your pass no wonder what we call black literature is reason of me that will create a synthesis with ray charles aretha franklin gonzales been handed down says he couldn't read or write this was a new no it was a lot of one time draut thousand years ago a crime to be revealed that is punishable by law this month they should somehow and it is why music made in the church know when you don't have four bout known in the church you went through the apollo theater but as a missouri

and she didn't turn into a gospel church situation and they hate math and that's true religion is you know an event than anything a writer who has come out of that i mean has it be limited but it comes out of that because the standards which come from greece and rome for example he was average come from christian to do jewish christian ethic other do this we've got a plan to your own life to do it seems but he's revising its you know so you have to use what they in fact you had as in what you've been told us is the question isn't can afford any good ideas and i'm stuck which is doing because among other things he's one of the writers and every day weekend to date including years of occupation and so it's easy for me but if you

go from say if you know i was letting go i'm reading too on their generation test of the first amendment then he had to stop into the states or something like the state much later than all of the law in terms of a much much much older then he began pink toes into the company agreed to listen to say the military benito mouse bp on an episode that they get permission because his analysis to the dumpster they needed was the master detective story line in the us than any citizen it's fantastic exactly but again on a double digit injustice pursuit of truth in them as richard wright die before he's quick with pursuing to that was particularly quick you know and that just ticket say ok i will pursue truth in this way which is a little better but you could make a movie out of the mountain is no beat you and it takes it right to be honest it's not the same thing to do in the current issue of the sewage is now selling used items split

and you know it's like what's your way get hung up in effect music and were finally as black writers seem to be so when the conviction of it as a younger president has visited that is to excavate again experience the people that is an act of writing is intention of that the movie is liberation no reason why no tie in history was able to read but embracing alone then the books and you know that is why no one at the leaves really that isn't giving the bacharach about where a suburb of freak you know needing to dancing doll's

we don't yet exist imagination of this century and i'm going to vote against this too much of state but they have to be weighted to answer that because that seems to be missing art prudent crisis has taught us how to do that we're surviving to not use jessen for that example you know releasing violent as it is a text or a new idea to be moving a detective story and he has agreed with you know when you see what i mean you know you look at those along with a very goofy as we said it was a lot but stated that and that man has no right this was a law in which white

man his boundaries that now you come to this i can say now libyan trained that law had no standard is which i don't expect that's when you know white creamy were ideal flu that depended on the judge or better that anyone at this stage operas leave the critics they give an honest living legend of critics that they're very rare a lucrative loretta a real pity to criticize a real book that have to write a book of england in which case is a waste of time because you couldn't read the book that their

criticism but in the good of being lenders to explain the nominee mostly though the young critics are acting just that her people and most of the young that critics threaten people i think essentially an end the white critics don't understand in many cases they would like to present that will only inclusive that and so they're saying rachel's never know when that day comes then ok that's involved in pregnancy i would rather fourteen year old kid said i didn't like that ncr didn't like that point i can relate to that because i know that he made it and he understood it and injections of a spring afternoon when you are not union the year that is it's a funny situation of being in these days

because everybody kind of meat which you doing and then to me wasn't what is that things are being planned liberty i know sheehan has a loya jirga ended and anything that the bank and this government is and maybe a bit of your intuitive that again to wanting to eliminate is vacant only about me consumers value of really talking only about one he gently situation room with impunity is edited related to like that oh security and well i knew and i was in

that job he once said to me was ridiculous position and said you're a junkie to the senate a second city streets and watching this interview at me you know did you talk to so it meant that i thought about it and i explained it was huge losing your own son in the final interview and that you know i also demands a total turning away from many things that it is mrs so the judges i don't

really know something or something and other economists were they know that they know their situation george a notable caldwell who's job at a mission and it's tremendous book editors are spoken directly well initially it really is exaggerated or rather not make clear the situation being a black man in america and the new government has written in a white man has been the man civilization president lavished its principle is you really get a really good it's a very frightening book but you have to want to live and to

make some very difficult and dangerous choices that the one thing you really had kind of say is what you know what you're trying to say that you're going to touch a human being unattached you know but what you really drives a m you as you get saved that either you can you know as one mall way joe comes in selma got him a couple of different of the wounds and i mean the guys in and i watched it is hank and when you buy guns or yellow like write it very likely that was too deep south from the sheriff you know it's part of a criminal conspiracy to destroy black people approve of this isn't about it nobody cared as i like it back in italy got no the plague spread out with the piss gaza westchester and my kids are

dying and then we have a drug problem that's again i think is a hen and i'm not on any case i don't know if i'm the incident happened but always done is to be that the people who are not on drugs christie gently you know once i interviewed wished they had a love affair that i think i think really seriously for those few years ago that robert because they realize that they just there are in you know the low point was considered a vision you know as it that you know the junkie is it likely a brother like me you know i know that in years i really am not rid of me is when the same track in the same trap the same reason it's you know

it's the same way you know that the great powers can use a tribal wall in some unknown country no set them against each other than blame both parties and with the money in switzerland his own country i think of course of course is that there was no point in it it takes a long time to remember little if you go to the online line cinema know i think how to live there in a natural a very long time and a lot of those calls you know whenever i ran and then to face when a liaison it takes a long time i don't think it is a

year of that i think that i love and like effects ashes of an impact but i think there's certain things the first but i don't need any bad and to feel better than rbc and i think they like they gently high in the whole war high that homosexuality you know i'm a little black kite and i don't need it because it doesn't make me that people date categories to say that white people had been a black people to give them a good white people no it's just straight and then that it's so intensely that he rather than look back at themselves somehow somehow it's that somehow if you're a writer you have forced to look behind the word to them you know yes yes

you're responsible for what that word means i mean you know you'd run a way to use that word to liberate the energy network but as it was a second act on the lives of people there was such a thing as a living word that wasn't that's right and if those people go you know like if you don't eat meat nineties and haven't been submitting his hotel located on as an animated video show due to a loophole know some who sued to make it happen and it will continue the us policy that is nothing because if they let it go rebecca pitts window destruction or how you tell that juice and white south africa before

you get an episode that guy the democratic agenda on the level of corruption of your children i mean isn't that out because a lot of criticism that the white south african does not have to hear me you know i mean if it's a job that i was made history and doesn't get nice and so when if you don't eat meat and you eat imported have your internet you have a state he gets hit me yet with good reason why because as lawyer has an alien that you lead is matt go to them as a truth that he's mad because you you keep is all caught in combat he's mad because he's trying to salvage an illusion which you're breaking he's that was emitting those have a producer judd robin will maddy know ibm's impressions about what does is really being no money and i was their lives well it gives investors really

low level of coke and veggies no i jacki well there's a real question they hate you all saved you but it's also it has to do with your courses yes i love that but they haven't yet over there at a ribbon of my generation we are talking about let's go back to the kid your job interview you you say what he would say you know what you have to do you know but some reason to be here no one needs wrestling really you know so we've been counterproductive

that it would use it like to sort of some things and he didn't seem like he could be optimistic and you know where the curriculum is you know ninety years ago listens only those businesses didn't know that this has to carry out of a judge this pessimistic if you think your company president not to be pretty realistic given to recruit need to be clear that this is a silent thousands of people have no feelings of others that is up also remove think the human race beneath their notice that other human being there have been people who really feel the need to give evidence that because it had this huge i can't really do feel alive

living conditions that end of it is to live in the moment you're going to shoot me getting in a knot and it just you figured well it means in any case you can walk into a movement talk to somebody look tonight you know i say i love you and say it now that can you go martha bates i couldn't you know only when i have my life and it's either god knows you that's all i can see you know which is in its mating parochial maryland employment but it just takes up so much energy just to keep yourself happy families into question judaism happen

you know it's a question of either yourself in the nation we'll talk to the horse was huge you know so they have been sending troops engagement but bezos reagan managed to to deal with it and listen to this new level of just been mind that this person facing new person like you know they go home and when they do si do theirs alone as you are into the vatican's responsibility as well we take any and

i was incredibly beautiful we've come to the end of this but i think it's a very important exchange of ideas and experiences and really love between nikki giovanni and jimmy baldwin and we hear it so find them so very much for letting us have the opportunity to do the special program a conversation between nikki giovanni and james baldwin says alice case that saying goodnight and so seeing next week pick through this i love is an aunt picked the logic that well if the list low cost move a larger than usual to rationalize it clear it can be romantic

yes the us loaded question when you're there this series is made possible in part by a grant from i m s interdisciplinary metropolitan systems incorporated soon well only noon news and