1973 Watergate Hearings; 1973-06-25; Part 5 of 6

it's b the effect of the government have been returned the cia and he told me that he thought the cia although maternal and no question the left in the file on national security grounds should be used with police information on february nine nineteen seventy three i spoke with director schlesinger the cia and ask him it would be possible to recreate the material that had been sent to the department justice and actually the watergate investigation i told him that i discussed this with the department of justice and they indicated that they would be legally required in their files indicating material have the return of the cia i certainly have a different general motors in late february at which time he told me that the cia was opposed for recruiting them adherent i mean inequality and again and so we treated because they also have been requested by the senate not to destroy any material relating to the case michael walters that i did not suggest that the material be

destroyed rather i thought national security grounds might justify withholding release of the information that the senate investigators he said simply could not be done and i got the matter has also explain later and i mean this material was in the possession of the justice mentally it was inevitable that the burglary of ellsberg's psychiatrist office would be discovered at any investigator with his salt would certainly be able to look at the pictures in the files of the department of justice and immediately determine the location and then they'll discover the fact there had been a burglary of the office that was in the picture the white house plans for dealing with this committee the watergate criminal trial in january of this year and that press reports members of the senate and independent games on the watergate related matters

the white house congressional relations staff reported that the subject of the watergate hearings has been discussed in the senate democratic policy committee that they did not know the substance of those discussions i was aware of the intense development all women and hearing because they discussed it with me and help him and told me that i disgusted with him on december thirty nineteen seventy two lemons and for me that senator jackson was coming to the white house for a meeting with the president and instead of senator jackson was meeting with a member of the senate democratic party committee had an excellent reporter with a permanent and that's me when i thought about having a president while senator jackson referring to potential of a senate inquiry into the war but it was a good idea that i would have a chance dimon said that the meeting was going to be without that anatomy michael munger chair of all the pokemon and michael collins was he was

not there he was in the president's office witness an underground was discussing the president joined in the white house that the meeting had been scheduled a major items officer which mr mort segal and iraq ten went to the meeting i raised the matter of the president's asking senator jackson about the hearings because i did not have authority to send them on a record of the president so i walk a memorandum down to tell us what it will take to the president before the meeting many of the number thirteen and harmony proceed with your writing listen to me or

maybe he in fact had the regimen i'm with him on the line for iphone and the germans have suggested it and it also though he said he had not known and made a notation and memoranda the president and immediately sent it back to the president it's both i learned that date from clemens like i met was senator jackson decided not no democratic senate democratic policy committee was going to give up your game i do not know of the presidents deficit because under jackson clemens continue to report to call enemy that there were rumblings on the bill the senate was going to proceed with herons senator kennedy subcommittee on administrative practices and procedures have been conducting an investigation for several months it was uncertain as to whether they would ever see

it was learned in late december early january senator manziel was putting on watergate hearings but there was debate as to who should handle hearings on january fifth or six it was reported that the universe to send unmanned focus on the latter center is when a senator or going home in hearings before that letter became public however lloyd johnston of the room and forming a top us senator he's from the white house one of senator he's no such hearings because they felt this generation of the family and the white house have more friends on the judiciary committee and on senator evans government operations committee i was told at the white house congressional relations staff was doing what it could to get the hearings before senator eastland committee and you know i want to hear the senate democrats only voted for senator and what headley inquiry into the watergate related matters and i must add

much of its displeasure of the white house on the nineteen seventy three the chairman and if that resolution to greatness really an advance copy of that resolution was fourteen the vitamins and i've subsequently revoked i was sent me requesting to attend a luncheon meeting with relevant cannons and johnson discuss the resolution another meeting i never and i was asked about that resolution and it suggested amendments that republicans might offer i have not the minority members have adequate staff to be a bipartisan legal representation the republicans and democrats that are minority members have the power to call an executive session when they believed that necessarily one thousand indicated that he would get someone at the department of justice

got amendments and that he and him and the island and the republicans and the development of the situation i receive what i interpreted as mild criticism that i wasn't getting the white house prepare for the forthcoming hearings and it was recognized that we were moving into an uncontrollable if not hostile we've made it through the politics according to be a meeting where these matters i also think that suggested that we call on top of an initial all agreed that while council would be most helpful accordingly i had my secretary's regular meeting americans august six nineteen seventy three and

day one rice fires mean that after my meeting with september when he had mentioned to me that mr hoover and told them that he had been during his nineteen sixty eight campaign about opening of information and how it was definitely and unemployment to get information from i really believed would have known if it had a little meeting and received some information but not much

the meeting and how i mean actual hollow more myself when the july he reported that there have been some demonstrations but the vote was unaware of the book we are one we have been reported i think it's our conversation i'd had mature earlier surveillance overload reporter mitchell was related to this is an option on the form embassy also whole records from the vice presidential candidate at news and applying when it stop in albuquerque new mexico had been checked by the fbi the meeting and going to a general discussion of the proposed amendments and clemens was all on the congressional leadership meeting that was then in session in rome

and the percentage of money and i was instructed to request senator scott to come to his office after the leadership meeting and i was instructed to go to michigan and zappos to explain the amendments to the resolution to senators sen sanders got to raise the nineteen sixty a bugging incident as a reason to explain her ovaries and expensive over the resolution presidential elections our president george and debris centers with a feeling that the media covered nothing but what determines office had a brief meeting with senators and as i was returning to my office iran and the more he told me that he felt that many of the news is i agree mm hmm

i live on the possibilities especially names on the republican side will select committee was senator scott and scott's seemed receptive the members of this committee were named as i recall telling me that holland judy mount clemens ho ho lee scott never given a chance to make any recommendations i'm paddling nine i plan to go to florida for a week ten days apart sanctimony and appear that everyone can relax while in midafternoon however my plans were changed when i received a call from an economy he wanted mr morgan me to come to california that night that we could just doesn't fully reveal the forthcoming senate hearings did he really and so if you come at it

with a more about a train trip to southern virginia with his young son and why more certain sense he was packing that many firework so the trains also my wife and i and moore okla san diego an evening of nine february everyone was staying at a resort hotel stops and fermenting them into parliament and more in myself ran for two days and i would estimate and war between twelve to fourteen hours of discussion meetings began on saturday morning february kind of sanctimony discussions would not begin to take any focus until saturday afternoon and sunday when we met holocaust face light up during a meeting trying to reconstruct what transpired national committee

what you really really want i could not look a committee memorandum until several days after the meeting was rather surprised at all in which they deny any specific instructions we are actually in the watergate tactics or the cover up by a counter offensive against the fourth time in seven years what happened what his point in time was the cover ever become a way of life in the white house and having made it to this those involving coming talents a moral also the senate was different in the courtroom during the fbi know i haven't dealt with earlier before coming to the substance of the cost of making a lighter note mr morn i talked on many occasions about the watergate affair and the damage it was doing <unk> more is the only person

other than mr ryan on a few occasions to whom i ever expressed my deep concern about the murder to cover up one morning not know all the facts he knew a great deal with becoming increasingly aware of the dimensions of the problem anyone else i was concerned was not going to simply go away and i have learned that the us is becoming aware of other illegal activities in the white house and i'm scott horsley as i've indicated you with his committee's investigation of a warning reward the towers over here to be over next major causes her parents realize

in all out effort by the white house to deal with a senate inquiry because of the scope of the resolution the composition of the committee investigative powers of the committee and the general feeling that the senate was a hostile world the white house when we're disappointed that the efforts to influence the senate resolution creating a select committee hailed as well as the white house approach to recommend members dislike committee that's the focus of this question was how to deal with a committee and four live during the morning meeting sentiment there was discussion of the members of this committee is that the white house would not vote for any help the democrats and iran one said his name is pronounced ain't no way ahead and the uncertainty there ain't no way he's going to give us anything but

republican members of this committee members of this committee were also discussed in that morning meeting was doing most of the assassin but occasionally home in warsaw senator like her with an independent who would give the white house senator graham would hope the white house would not happen until the so called seven sen bernie needs the white house because former congressman kramer make a team on an actual primary senator bernie was considered issue of random protector the president's interests senator baker was an unknown in your home or canoe which way he might go ah i know

he thought that senator baker might help but he was not sure he was often however that senator during would protect the white house would do so either political instincts and not have to be persuaded yourself a long and short of this morning was that the white house had one hand and the possibility of wooing and winning another later after the meeting reconvene discussion turned to a general wrote about how to deal with a select committee the republican nominee to be it they were repudiated by the senate after a victory for dealing with discrimination policy the white house will take a public posture a full cooperation of private label attempt to restrain the investigation and make it as difficult

as possible to get information and what lessons a behind the scenes in the effort will be made to make the senate inquiry appear very partisan the ultimate goal would be to discredit the hearings and reduce their impact but campaign to show that democrats have engaged in the same types of activities during the meeting on saturday afternoon over her opponents company calling johnson and how johnson that he was going to visit with senator baker during a congressional recess find out how senator to senator landrieu to operate that is was he going to be friendly cordial and as senator baker how the white house could at him critically regarding the selection of the minority council i am arranged to give johnson some kind of reading before i went to see senator baker no fact from fiction when talking to senator about the watergate

and said that was not necessarily october johnson well the russians misleading and the message to him immediately at one point in the meeting had been raised the question of whether or not it was going to be able to obtain a grand jury minutes and other investigative reports from the fbi was it turns out there is i said i don't know no one really knew that the justice department lawyers and i played like on the ground i'm disgusting mr buchanan

the repair speeches on the press coverage he could write op ed articles and actually attend the hearings and the white house spokesman to take the pressure of daily briefings senegal an american ministry previous white house attacking media oriented white house aides need virtually every morning determine how to our editors news for bush white house programs should not be involved there was also discussion during the cast in the role of reelection committee role they would play her in the senate hearings with the senate and the re election committees should happen however was re election committee should beef up its legal and public relations that all random and parkinson should be given additional legal spat and the witnesses on the committee mr benjamin

levin and graduations for the reelection committee would be asked to remain on and provide provided with any additional staff he needed for more oversight over mr shawn white's operation against the reelection committee hired private investigators to get information about the democratic campaigns with an illness becomes more political surveillance and so there was a lengthy discussion of the importance of the minority council you're a man generations

mr urbina mean on sunday afternoon february eleven and raised the bar on what remained silent for the senators it is i reported that i cannot answer the question because i did not know that they were still demanding more money that we have just as we have discussed previously there was no money available michael bowman american character messages mitchell this is something that they would have to take care of your confusion and this was something that he should take care of me michel but that they were wearing medals feelings that this is something the white house should be concerned about isis but i was concerned that they wouldn't take this image of

themselves in the middle that was a matter for the white house for the first time in the us a little bit of the meetings that won't go to your report michel what happens all regarding the senate hearings and now and was an important element of this visit the middle and more like the iphone and the sycamore in his business but he now imagines the situation thank you

their mothers as beakman juan tornoe i received calls he'd be more than others following on matters didn't stop motion fascinating on february thirteenth they received a call from lonnie johnson for me that utah senator baker by telephone he told me that he had informed senator vacant units serve as the white house liaison to select committee johnson reported that senator baker told him personally as it was not necessary they can talk when he returned to washington from tennessee the qualifications johnson reports

the senator at the names all into consideration and plan to make a selection that in the next few days johnson told me that nothing says the vicar at the white house you mentioned generational collaboration i'm reports on the veteran had indicated that he can be getting together after the recess and discussed a reporter called in the industry on the fourteen of february paul ryan he arrived in the evening and assumptions was discussed that even though there's been some hand ringing over the journal circulation good

morning now maybe it was really funny reaction as he was well aware of mitchell's feeling that this was not his was an actual puppet go through the room after returning from a long we talk about the names come in on the conversation and mark haugh who i knew to be a very capable and uncertain as juno mission on the hill i call that often that he said it was not an innovator with the big pendulum that it's the atomic energy commission seven senator baker

many of them during my conversation with paul and he told me that he had been the chief counsel and offered mr cannon he and mr keating incentive for the white house as to whether he should be in his own asked me to think about it at all about the straw poll clemens and johnson asked them to then senator baker later he's human all that the men report a conversation i was

an out of the room while he was on a telephone talking metal with my business with his conversation with machete in the conversation we talk about the possibility of a few key is chief counsel mr mitchell singing good king would accept in many ways yes viola money for a meeting with me williams

comedian interview requests to submit an secretary stands for using mr buchanan her insight herons and file and the attorney general and the white house so when you are willing to inform me that means out of the question the details

are continuing it matters to me i agree he arranged thank you and me an intimidating thing to

remember after the president was that i was informed by a co signer typically a very interesting thing for president have the impression he might be helpful this of course was the white house hope that nothing was reported from the nineteen eighties any more than a hoe one is gone baker's assessment as possible but the president had told senator baker hughes one of the line and then a lot of hurts a baker discuss you're in silver to quickly as possible his report at

a market here apparently meaning that day throughout the watergate investigation fallen in particular complained about the findings passive role in the investigation and prosecution all i'm an american we're both awareness strained relationship between finding from the white house i mean there are going to be writing a part of the justice department and undermine findings i also knew from conversations with finding vivian schiller earlier this year and presented a real possibility of the justice department and to make it further criminal investigations that would lead that the white house korea and this meeting was designed as a result senator bakker's request declining the vehicle to solicit assistance during the hearings

and eventually developed during aaron's cannot let our subsequent investigations i've submitted to the committee exhibit number thirty four in favor as reporter i know went to the prison because just before the meeting and the repetition and the president would understand and discussed this with a meeting with me henry morning he told me he would continue to monitor it also makes her working closely with senator baker a select committee hearing as i mentioned

but also the informal have made a decision that mcgregor could not return to the white house i've been working at the novel even before the inauguration he told me it calls for him to request a meeting with paul to discuss his future and you know you have to decide i'm going to do and that indicated hollen calls will raise operating nineteen seventy three occasions you see him in the hall in california for years

shortly after this conversation the iphone and kill him making mistakes when california on a great incentive to suggest that women remembered him but he persuaded yet unable to make a similar suggestion which i didn't do and he was working hard until now we had a conversation in this room here

he is i want to find a job and hollis times you need to find an available interviewing me he says

he also indicated mr johnson but a memorandum to haiti and myself which i have submitted to the committee exhibit ready for a new review the memorandum a meeting was going and i was asked to attend listening to him ritter is working at the bicentennial was not realistic to consider the position of the department of commerce is an assistant to the secretary for policy development and that is that he was interested if he made it to the senate hearing and he had a

grand jury and while you'd think that we could have a better job later seventy but that he would do all pushed me to assess it was good enough for reporter owen seventies began to be told to proceed with secretary going to get the position of commerce and more immigration migration committee meetings at the president in

february march of the sheer i had described committing several matters that follow button which directly involved presidential decision making unpleasant involvement michael began in late nineteen seventy one it means to me the main point is that this was the first meeting with the president since by september fifth nineteen seventy meeting which related to the watergate was at this meeting of the president directed the un report directly to him were going all it matters you tell me and also tells me reading for senator baker

and i think even with the attorney general to make sure that they are working together he asked me to follow me to determine if the pentagon later had met and one when we have discussed as for the attorney general you kind of planning to meet with senator baker and senate are going to discuss many of the fbi investigation a brief discussion which was very important to me i'm in the white house he asked me if i believe that there's a nice or something at the piano lesson and my great serious problems economy and the bill he also told me that senator bernie will be at the white house it would be not

necessary to contact him to return it would know what to do on a long on the way out of his office he told me i had done an excellent job of dealing with this matter during the campaign i mean i can make something out of it and he was in the nineteen nineties he asked me if i've got to be an internal is an

innovator i told him the terminal was seeking an even though senator baker i told him the fbi investigation the president said that he didn't think we should ask me what i told him i did not think there was much damaging information in the fbi investigation of abuse and bad public relations firm he told me about this matter he also said that he had read in the morning paper but the best location that actually what any of the other and the matter i told him what i knew of his brother's involvement which was that he was an innocent agent in the conservation transactions when discuss the leaked to time magazine and the fact that the white house played what exxon newsman white house that people asked me if i knew how that suddenly i told him that i would not but i know several people were aware of it but i didn't know anybody he asked me

tell me that information we then talk about executive levy executive in a statement on the band's ability not appear to be a responsibility here in the matter you can raise money i think

for many decisions that were made and you witness d taylor he really hurting the iranian those nominations with a meeting on morning edition the fundamental mandate and the emmy nomination of course he's conducting an investigation for him and that it would be sort of these reports i've not conducted an investigation

investigations of public relations any questions a great nation in the senate judiciary committee they're invisible he also told me that the fbi should not be turned over by the way i want him to have a

meeting with the fbi for many years and so on but the fbi is the administration's examples of mr solomon given the president told me to get this information from so told me that he was a reliable call and told me that i should read a chapter of the engines of the fbi he also calling it getting any materials i could gather regarding uses and abuses of the fbi asked administration so that we can show that we're not accused the fbi for political purposes the president's home at this intensity of nineteen sixty eight that indicated the vote probably lying it's morning edition if

i might he also i mean who else might know about the bugging of his nineteen sixty eight campaign and i suggested that mr colson hoover's former assistant might have some knowledge of eco called wholesome and wish him happy birthday ode to help get some information from him that's it and that might be raided his press conference he had returned to his disgust with the present situation during the march first afternoon meeting

the president also asked me some questions about executive privilege and the timing of the release of the executive privilege which is that in his press conference on january thirty first i told him that police and many of the other side a handful of people i told him about the alvin lee but during the days after the smart marketers meetings with the president but i have to maintain the camp became coming increase in before one of the great confirmation hearings and i'm wondering whether there was going to be a situation we can report to the committee and a number of senators were anxious to use me use of the region amar a conversation with a huge burden on him which he is and i'm

going to continue with the project the sixty percent of that the pope wants the nation's cities and i think that says reveals more details of the white house strategy in dealing with the senate watergate committee the committee is recess for another floor vote when they return dean will continue to chronicle his conversations with the president public television's coverage of the senate hearings were resumed after a pause for station identification

on a bright coverage of these hearings is provided as a public service of the member stations of pbs a public broadcasting service terry and pike

continues its coverage or hearings by the senate select committee on presidential campaign activities here again correspondent robert mcneil if you stayed up this long you'll probably find the hour that follows now the most interesting and rewarding lovable evening john dean is about to resume his version of the cover up activities including his talks with president nixon opinions because because because these bodies christie's our

writers year making up the forum wanted to acquire by our own rules thank you at the meeting with the president on march sixth of this meeting was brief a general discussion of the status of the great earrings and the president reminded me again i should report directly to him and not involve halderman ehrlichman with regard to watergate matters meeting on march seventh and was very unhappy with great performance before the senate judiciary committee in my meeting with him on this day he made a reference to the fact that gray's comment regarding my sitting in on the investigations by the fbi was absurd he felt was perfectly proper that i was putting those interviews and said the grays attitude that equal

jolly well and quote when forward because he had no alternative was absurd i also disgust with the present the facts at ziglar was considering endorsing the aclu and the judiciary committee were going how the fbi materials the president thought that that was a good idea at the end of the meeting the president instructed me to tell you attorney general to cut off a grave from turning over any further watergate report to the senate judiciary committee and he said this just have to say yes the meeting of march eighth i had a very brief meeting with a burden on the state during which he asked me if something had been done just upgrade from turning over the fbi materials to the senate judiciary committee i told him that i thought the matter had been taken care of by the attorney general phone conversations of modern times about him called me to tell me you thought we should get executive privilege that went out

immediately that this should be done before i was called before the senate judiciary committee in connection with a greater insult it would not appear that the statement on executive privilege as a response to the action by the senate committee leading a march that has a rather lengthy meeting the baka which was taken up by a discussion about the gray herons and the fact the senate judiciary committee had voted to invite me to appear in connection with gray's nomination with at this time we discussed the potential of litigating the matter of executive privilege and thereby preventing anybody from going before any senate committee until the matter is all the president liked the idea very much typically when i mentioned to him that it might be possible but he could also claim attorney client privilege on me so that the strongest potential case on executive privilege would probably arrest them accountable president i told him that obviously the cia would have to be researched eco only eat about one haldeman

ehrlichman to go before the open hearings and if we're really getting them out and dean but no one would have to go to appear or the end of a conversation we got into a discussion of watergate matters specifically i told the president about the fact that there were many demands being made by the seven convicted defendants and at the sentencing of these individuals was not it was during this conversation that hollande came into the office after this brief interruption by poems coming in but while he was still there i told the president about the fact there was no money to pay these individuals to meet their demands he asked me how much it would cost i told him it only make an estimate that it might be as high as a million dollars or more he told me that that was no problem he also looked over harlem and repeat of the same statement he then asked me who is demanding his money like obama was possibly coming from one through his attorney

the president then referred to the fact that one had been promised executive clemency he said that he had discussed this matter with ehrlichman and contrary to instructions ehrlichman and given calls not to talk to the question about it because and also discussed it with him later he expressed some annoyance of the fact the calls and had also discuss this matter within the conversation then turned back to a question from the president regarding the money they were being paid the defendants he asked me how this was done i told him i didn't know much about it other than the fact that the money was laundered so could not be traced and then there were secret deliveries i tell him i was learning about things i had never known before but the next time i would certainly be more knowledgeable this comment got a laugh out of parliament the meeting ended on this note and it was no further discussion of the matter and it was left hanging just as i describe it a meeting on march fourteenth the meetings which

occurred on this day possibly involve preparing the president for a forthcoming press conference i recall talking about executive privilege and making peanut test case in the courts and executive privilege the president said that if he did he would like very much to do this and if the opportunity came up in the press conference he would probably so it's gone i also recall that during the meetings which occurred on this day that the president was going to try to find an answer that would get the ziglar off the hook and the frequent questions asked him regarding the watergate he said that he was going to stay or say but he would take no further questions on watergate until the completion of the urban herons and ziglar in turn could repeat the same statement and avoid further interrogation by the press on the subject media and marketing it was late in the afternoon after the president's press conference yesterday more like more to visit with him he was a very relaxed mood and entered into a gentle discussion about the press conference the president was amazed and

distressed that the price paid so little attention to the fact that he had made this strike announcement about ambassador bruce open up a liaison office and became he said he was amazed when the first question following that announcement regarding whether or not dean would appear before the senate judiciary committee in connection with a greater and the conversation and remote into a discussion of his case and mr moore discuss his memory of the president's handling of the case reading on march fifteen he was a discussion was anchor on how to follow up on a number of matters of erosion in the press conference preceding a medium march seventeenth st patrick's day and that was in a very good mood and very relaxed and we engaged in a rambling conversation with somebody footprints as for the gray herons and the problems that word then can find a white house regarding the president's statement on executive privilege and it wants to go to court in the matter he opined that it up and the senate will be dumb enough to go for the bait that he had given them is helpful or they might

be on march nineteenth as best meetings are other women discussion regarding media problems in connection with the gray herons as the discussion preceded i suggested that mr moore might like to engage in this conversation whether there was some discussion the senator and the parents the preceding sunday on face the nation and whether or not it would be appropriate for me to respond to some of the points that were being made regarding my request appearance before the second issue of a committee i told the president that i would work with a man preparing a draft response meetings on march twentieth probably earlier that morning to tell me that i should work up a draft letter of response as a result of the discussions we have a free cd with more i told him i was getting a letter and he said he told me as soon as i have a prepared a challenge to meet with him shortly after lunch i took over a draft copy of the letter which i had witnessed more and submitted a copy of the draft letter