Forum; Father Randolph Frew: The Episcopal Church Confronts Aids

ska openness. From the Longhorn Radio Network, the University of Texas at Austin, this is Forum. The way it's expressed is to encourage ongoing research in seeking a cure, seeking an end to the devastation of this virus, and that's the way it's expressed in the resolutions that are passed to general convention. Father Randolph Fru, HIV-AIDS staff person at the Episcopal Church Center in New York City. I think also that at least my experience in diocese and at various parishes, for example,

where there's a eagerness celebrated and a healing service laying on of hands for healing, is that oftentimes it's expressed, we invite you, the community, not only Episcopalians, but anybody who want please come and come for laying on of hands. And we look forward to the day when we can celebrate the end of this epidemic. This is Olive Graham. Our guest on Forum today is Father Randolph Fru. Father Fru is an Episcopal priest who is in charge of the HIV-AIDS ministry of the Episcopal Church Center, the National Office of the Episcopal Church headquartered in New York City. Before his appointment, Father Fru served as a parish priest for 12 years and is founder of the Holy Apostles Soup Kitchen in New York.

The National and International scope of the AIDS epidemic has forced religious institutions to take steps to meet the social and spiritual needs that have arisen. Father Fru's staff position reflects the commitment of the Episcopal Church as a result of the grip this disease will have on our world's population for some time to come. Father Fru. When I was a director of Holy Apostles, which is a parish on the lower west side of Manhattan, we began hearing more and more about gay men coming down with this virus and dying at that point in a very short period of time, weeks, sometimes days. And people began to come to the parish to ask if their sons could be buried or if their companions or lovers could be buried. And many churches in New York at that point would not have anything to do with people who would die of AIDS as a lot of other businesses like funeral parlors, for example. Holy Apostles have always been a very open community about a lot of things,

about civil rights, about women's issues, about gay and lesbian liberation concerns. And it's a very unself-conscious congregation in that way and very open, very receptive to people. So we responded in a very positive and affirming way. So the beginning was really a very pastoral ministry and an advocacy ministry from the standpoint of allowing people a safe place to come and to bury their dead and to grieve and to have hurt and pain and have people there who would be willing to support them. People often think in terms of religion and healing when it's faced with sickness. Do you use that word in connection with the ministry? Yeah, I do and I think a lot of us in the Episcopal Church use the word healing. I think where some confusion comes sometimes is healing and cure. There's lots of ways to heal and which don't always involve a total 180 degree turnaround of what

one's life is going to be or how one's life is going to end for that matter. But that doesn't preclude the possibility of transformation. And I think what I see in a lot of people's lives is transformation. In some people, transfiguration, literally a very fundamental, substantive change in their lives occurs. Their loves become more, their commitment to loves become deeper and more substantive. There's sense of commitment to life and to the lives of other people and to helping other people. People do some incredible things who are living with AIDS in all respects. And I think particularly the people who I know and have seen who are living with the virus. They're an incredibly non-self-centered community of people for the most part.

The folks that I've encountered anyway, they continue to reach out and to be receptive and open to people and want people to understand and to learn and to grow from their experience. And in some way communicate that experience to other people. It's very spiritual. That's really what I'm saying. There's a depth of spirituality here that I find attractive and that I find really a point for change for other people. At what point did the National Church decide to become active on this front? Well, again, my own history with that is that living in New York, the office of our presiding bishop is in New York City. I'm speaking here of the Episcopal Church now. And my sense was that I was watching the numbers increase of the number of people who were getting sick and being diagnosed with the number of people who were dying of this disease.

And at that point, I called over at the Episcopal Church Center and asked if the presiding bishop could send out a pastoral letter to the Episcopal Church about this disease and what was going on. And encourage Episcopalians to be non-discriminatory and to reach out and compassion and love toward people who were living with AIDS because it was an awful lot of bigotry and discrimination and violence, physical, literal, physical violence against people with AIDS at that point. I'm talking about 1983, late 1982, 1983. He sent over some people that were on his staff. This was Bishop Jack Allen who was then the presiding bishop before Bishop Browning. And two members of the staff came over to talk with me at the parish at Holy Apostles. And what we came up with was the idea of bringing a resolution to the Executive Council, which is a governing body of the Episcopal Church between our general

conventions, which happened every three years. So resolutions went to council. Members of the staff also engaged the late Sammy Davis Jr. to do public service announcements on behalf of the Episcopal Church, having to do with the AIDS epidemic and encouraging Episcopalians to be conscious of the fact that this disease was not easily transmitted, that it was not something to be afraid of. And it certainly wasn't anything that was God's punishment. Now that's been the Episcopal Church's approach to this all along. So that was the advent of the National Church's involvement. When Bishop Edmund Browning became presiding bishop in 1985, from the very outset of his Episcopacy as presiding bishop, he made a commitment to this ministry. And in late 1985, brought on board an AIDS consultant at the National Church staff in New York. And that's the position that I've been holding since October of 1988.

So you travel the 48 states? Well, I travel. I get involved with just about any place that the Episcopal Church has relations. And that's worldwide. The Episcopal Church is a worldwide church. It's part of the Anglican Communion. And there are some 60 million Anglicans throughout the world. And so we already have a structure and network by which we're able to work with one another and really get this information out to people throughout the Anglican Communion. So I get calls or faxes or letters from various parts of the Anglican Church. And from other churches, for that matter, saying what kind of resources, what kind of materials do you have? Who do you know in my part of the world that I can be in touch with? And that's an awful lot of the kind of stuff that I'm involved in. But that goes throughout the world as well as throughout the lower 48 plus Alaska. And why?

Looking at our country from the continental United States, can you actually distinguish or identify a difference in response to this issue one area to another, one region to another? I guess there is from the standpoint that it happened to be the coasts that were the hardest hit at first. Some of the cities on the coast, mainly California and in New York and in Florida for that matter were very hard hit. And we're some of the first to respond. I mean, New York City and San Francisco, Los Angeles were incredibly responsive in terms of the age epidemic. Now, I think a distinction has to be drawn here. Many people think that the Episcopal Church is doing an incredible job around this disease. And I think in some respects it's quite true. What we need to remind ourselves though before we go, you know, extending our arms too far to pat ourselves on the back is that there were community-based organizations chiefly out of the

gay and lesbian community because essentially, as you know, the disease began among gay men. And people were very quickly to write it off and say, well, this is a disease that doesn't affect me. And there was also the added separation that a lot of people felt about gay men in general, and like them plain and simply. I mean, and then like them, but they despise them. And that led to a real sense of justifying making really awful statements like, well, this is people's just desserts and this is probably God's dissertation. And I mean, people rather taking some rather smugg attitudes as far as I'm concerned. Very quickly, it was recognized at least among that community that if gay men and lesbians didn't respond to take care of their own people, nobody was going to respond. The government wasn't responding. Ronald Reagan never said the word AIDS until seven years into his presidency. Local government wasn't responding. And your sort of

traditional community-based organizations helping organizations for the most part were not responding. So there had to be an infrastructure created and there was. So the church in a sense came along about three years into the epidemic. I mean, there were individuals in the church out there, but to really begin to make an institutional response. So because of so many deaths and so much sickness and so much grieving, I've encouraged people to not waste time reinventing the wheel, duplicating efforts, look out there and learn from what other people are doing, see what they're doing, see where it's applicable, and and anglicanize it if you must, you know, make it churchy if you have to, but at least take what people have done and then you can overlay it with whatever you need to overlay it with or adjust it or tinker with it. But what's the difference when you've got a

good solid AIDS organization going that does AIDS education? Why don't there's no reason for the churches to come up with a teaching team when they've got a teaching team right in the community that can be called upon to come in and offer classes on what AIDS is about, what it isn't about, how it's transmitted, how it's not transmitted, all the rest of those things. And I think that we've really been trying to encourage that to say, look, know who's in your community, know what, know what, know what really is happening in your community and utilize those work collaboratively in other words. Don't think because we're church, we have all the answers because we don't, we certainly don't about this disease. But this would rely on a great deal of honesty on on both sides about lifestyles about just how to recognize whether or not a person is at risk. Well, certainly. The interesting thing is that in one sense the lifestyle issue is a

mood point. Since in terms of the transmission of HIV sex is sex is sex to be blunt about it. Whether one is engaged with a heterosexual partner or a gay partner or involved in bisexuality, the point is that there are that there are very few behaviors that aren't common to all. Well, I was including drugs in lifestyle. Yes, exactly. Right. Oh, I glad you clarified that because I really, I wasn't sure where you were going with that. Which, and I was not considering that common to, you know, the population at large. No. Now, I think that's true too, that people, I think the honesty, yes, the honesty around all those lifestyles. Yeah. I think one of the, maybe one of the best illustrations I have about that in terms of my own learning was when a street worker out of San Francisco encouraged a number of us to stop using the term intravenous drug user. Since drugs can be used in need with

needles and be popped and not be shot intravenously. Therefore, one who doesn't shoot into a vein, but uses a needle to inject, can say, oh, well, I'm not in that category because I don't, I don't shoot intravenously. But that doesn't mean that he or she is not at risk for for transmitting HIV or for receiving HIV. And so I think any way in our education that we can tear down the walls of denial, I think you're quite right. The issue of honesty is one of the most significant issues around this disease and, and its prevention and, and getting the message out about, about assisting people. Well, the Episcopal Church has a rather Tony reputation. How does it communicate with drug users? Sometimes you're not going to find them necessarily in the pew behind you. I would hope, baby, we do. I think, I think there's a, I've heard

people say that. I've had Episcopalians say to me in all, in all honesty and, and sincerity. We do not have people like that in the Episcopal Church. And I, and I guess that, that my point is that we, we do. You just don't happen to know them. Or they happen to be very good at hiding their addiction. Or they happen to be very good at hiding whatever other kind of lifestyle we happen to be engaged in that has to do with, with transmitting or the need for education around this disease. The fact is, too, that some of the people we all consider a greatest risk for HIV transmission is, is, is all of our young people who are at, at risk because of it, of a time of high experimentation, having to do with lots of things, not just drugs and sexuality, but certainly

including drugs and sexuality. And for that reason, we have lots of people in the Episcopal Church and there are lots of people in all the other churches, for that reason, who also are at great risk for, for HIV. Do you find yourself being able to operate on a policy-making level as well? The resolutions that we pass at, at our general convention, which is our major policy-making institution that is a conglomerate of our, of our 115 dioceses. Each diocese sends four lay people, four clergy, four ordained persons, two general convention, which occurs every three years and is responsible for passing all kinds of legislations. It's a bicameral legislature. There's the House of Bishops, there's one House, and the House of Deputies, which is the lay and clerical House as the other. It's an enormous body of people. There are hundreds

of some bishops in the House, and there are nearly 900 deputies in the House of Deputies. Those resolutions that are passed there speak to a wide variety of issues. One of them, of course, is AIDS. But when I say policy, I mean the kinds of public policy that we as a government of law administratively operate. The point is that what the resolutions do is enable us to advocate publicly. They speak to public issues, and oftentimes a resolution will speak to a particular part of the governmental structure. It will ask the church at all of its levels, or in all of its manifestations, to speak to state government, to the federal government, to address the president of the United States, to address members of Congress to deal in a non-discriminatory way around HIV and AIDS, for example, to help provide for early intervention and anonymous

testing sites, for example, to undo the prohibition of allowing people with HIV and AIDS to come into the United States, which is presently still on the books, and the Episcopal Church has made a statement opposed to that particular law of the immigration and naturalization service that policy, to say that policy ought to be done away with. There's no medical, no logical reason for that policy to be in effect. So the church does speak in that way, and attempts to engage itself locally, statewide and nationally, to help people to know that it's from their fate that they make that response, and to find where it is in here, from their heart, from their mind, from that body of faith, from the gospel, to then make a statement to the state, to the government to say, look, we as Christian people, this is what we believe about this,

and we would ask you to respond in this way. How do you measure success? Well, I think just like anything else, when you see results, when you begin to see policies modified, when you begin to see the government taking a stand positively for people living with AIDS, when you get to see in the life of the church, and I'm going to turn this around a little bit, I'm going to hold up the mirror to the church as well as the mirror to the government. I think one very important measure of success is when we begin to see people with HIV and AIDS coming openly to churches and being welcome and accepted and affirmed and supported in their lives, and allowing them to come and offer their gifts as human beings, the gifts of their lives that God has given them, and able to share with members of the community, in other words, to tap into those incredible resources that these people have, and to be utilized within the context of the community

of faith. Let me ask you about some of your experiences internationally with this disease. Are there other countries that are as aware, however you measure that, as our country is? What other places on the planet have they dealt with this in a heads-up fashion? In terms of communities making response, local communities, Indigenous communities making response, my thought is that the United States probably has more of that going on than any other country in the world. Probably more research going on than any other country in the world without a doubt, and just because of our will that much more money being invested in it. Things are very slow, slower in some of the African countries it varies, and I'm not able to sort all of that out and wouldn't attempt to. People's approach, and I'm speaking now not so much of government as I am of church,

okay? I know more about church internationally than I do, government. The response varies widely. Some church people want to approach this in a similar way to at least the way we in the United States are doing as far as the Episcopal Church is concerned around our resolutions in a loving and compassionate approach, a pastoral approach. There are some people who have very serious questions about this disease in its relationship, or they understand the relationship to hoist scripture, and interpret it in a moral way. This is a moral judgment upon some people, and there has to be some real dialogue around that, and therefore the church has been very slow to sort of pick up the ball and run with it. I guess really what I'm saying by illustrating that is that there is as much diversity in response

worldwide as you will find in the United States. I think part of the qualitative way in which we've been able to respond is because of our enormous resources. We're an incredibly wealthy country, which has made even though you've got a minority of persons in the United States who are really responding wholeheartedly to this disease, proportionate to the amount of money that's available, it looks like it's an enormous response, and I think that needs to be taken into account, just the fact that there are nations whose healthcare budgets equal 40 cents per person per year. Are you aware of any other denominations that have this kind of thrust or this disease? Yeah. At least have similar parallel thrusts. The United Church of Christ has such on the national level I'm talking about now. The Methodists have a person who has HIV-AIDS Ministry in her portfolio, Presbyterians. The Metropolitan Community Church has an AIDS Ministry

person and the Unitarian Universalist Fellowship. And some, there are a couple of rabbis who are involved at a national level, reformed rabbis. Your personal agenda with this task that you have, do you feel it directed by events outside of you or is there some way you can make plans and fight this with what you do? I think that there is a measure of effectiveness and a sense that that I can bring what I have to offer in terms of this ministry and something like an epidemic doesn't make you feel out of control. No. No, I guess it doesn't. Hope is a very strange thing.

I have faith is a very strange thing. I don't know how it works all the time. I know there are periods when, let me just give you, the best way to tell is to give you a story, right? A year and a half ago, within the space of two weeks, five friends, acquaintances of mine, all under the age of 25, told me they were HIV positive. That stopped me for about a month in the sense that I found I would be talking and I would start crying or I'd be doing something and I'd start crying. I was a bit lethargic. I think there was some depression involved. But we, one of the things that I think we're discovering here is that we who are engaged

this ministry and have been engaged in it for a long time must really know how to take care of ourselves and we must find the support we need and we must get the support we need and we must know how to ask for it. We can't be these lone-ranger types and as this self-made person routine doesn't work, I don't think it works anyway. I think it's an illusion but it sure doesn't work if you're engaged in this kind of ministry. So not just myself but a lot of people I know really rely upon one another and we go get fed, we try to eat regularly, we try to sleep regularly, we try to do some decent things, just good, common, practical things. It's very interesting. What people living with the virus within their bodies do for themselves? People like us who are

also affected by the virus, we, all of us, we, all of us living with HIV-AIDS take care of ourselves in very some more ways. By doing these very practical things, get plenty of sleep, you know, stay in touch with friends, don't get too worn out, don't keep staying up late late at night and not getting sleep, just really good stuff like that. The guest on Forum Today has been Father Randolph Fru, father Fru is the HIV-AIDS staff person for the Episcopal Church Center in New York City. The views expressed on this program do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Texas at Austin or this station. Technical producer for Forum, Cliff Hargrove, production assistants Mike Lee and Catherine Vasquez. I'm your producer and host, Olive Graham.

Cassette copies of this program are available and may be purchased by writing, Forum Cassettes, Longhorn Radio Network, Communication Building B, UT Austin, Austin Texas 78712. From the Center for Telecommunication Services, the University of Texas at Austin, this is the Longhorn Radio Network. This week on Forum, the Episcopal Church confronts AIDS. The way it's expressed is to encourage ongoing research in seeking a cure, seeking an end to the devastation of this virus and that's

the way it's expressed in the resolutions that are passed to General Convention. Father Rand Fru, this week on Forum.