OutCasting; Intersex (Part 2 of 2)

we may hope that we have made some progress and how people have more complicated understanding of sex gender and sexuality but you still take a biology class and it shows you to pictures of anatomy we're learning about sex and everybody is still being educated in a system that explains sex not buying very way and does not convey this variation for all of us and our sex characteristics that sex characteristics in general followed whole spectrum of possibilities most people when they hear that term intersects they imagine it's somebody with a non binary gender identity are still at a very basic level of understanding the long way to go for people to understand better and until we complicate the way that we teach everybody about how parties work then that's what we're going to continue to produce and for people to think of any variation on that is just wrong or scary this is a classic public radio's lgbt q youth program where you don't have to be queer to be here about

casting is a production of media for the public a listener supported independent producer based in new online ad out casting media dot org hi i'm lucas you've participant in our castings mean studio in westchester county new york on this edition about casting a plus andrew talks with terry gabriel castello and george and davis about their experiences being intersects which means that they were born with physical characteristics that don't fit into buying air six categories carries an associate professor of sociology at the university of wisconsin milwaukee i'm the director of the lgbt studies program there george jahn is an associate professor of sociology at the university of nevada las vegas and board president of interact a nonprofit that advocates for intersections in this conversation kerry and george and talk about what it means to be intersects and the difficulties that they and other intersects individuals because this is the second part of a two part series on both parts are available on our website a casting media bought or surgeon

davis and kerry gave erica so welcome back so casting and thanks again for joining us we use in the first part of this conversation we talked about some of the basics of what it means to be intersects a few specific intercepts conditions and how some intercepts people are subjected to surgery they have an incentive to in order to make their bodies conform to a preconceived ideas about binary generous we talk about mj's and insensitivity syndrome is that a common intersects conditions and can you explain what it is changing mr church that's more common in other intercepts traits that existed certainly is not the most common intersect straight wedding during just a fuel development that cbs wasn't responding to injured in the ways that we would typically expect soder it were insensitive to be injured that they were sort of being exposed to any of it is sort of an umbrella term for things like testosterone and under jazz intersects trade i have what's

important to note is that there's really no clear test about your completely insensitive or socially insensitive to introduce the just some sort of zero sort of determine how much share your body responds and sensitivities and you will soar eric diagnosis for folks who have sanitary and externally that mean that resemble your typical it's important to note though that even their terms that we use for example syndrome or conditions can be viewed by some as very problematic because what does it mean to say you have this syndrome or to say you have a condition and it really is rising as opposed to thinking about it being a natural variation it's one of the reasons i say things like i have an interstate straight and i still identify as having completely entertaining

you know so soldiers and beyond involuntary says go and detentions are there other issues in the way that health care providers treat and his ex patients host thinking about the presence of an inter sex trade ever that made service in our bodies as just being a natural variation where there were talking to relax early summer of soar a sort of scene he's pushing the medical interventions that are necessary to surgically align once it with the gender that providers or something i think that doctors then also negligent in hand with those medical interventions and also historically would live through armed people about their diagnosis now tell people encourage parents to go along with those lies

as you experienced you are too slow about the diagnosis and now withholding that information that we're encouraging parents to lie to their children or their intersection and so we should start by sorrow me sadly to this pain no schools that person was sex trade not be told the truth about their bodies and and that's just really series treme and i'm really sad she's an she's one of many people who knew her whole life until you were considered problematic there were monitoring the way to achieve presenter gender expression

i sort of did not find out until she you know turned herself what your diagnosis nobody three their own carson recently struggling all very clearly wanting to know what is it about me that people are finding so problematic but she also have the experienced doctors treat your own body and it's something that they have the right to explore and their act because they've decided it's unusual doctors use it many complained about is

able to exhibits little we freak shows and train them to allow they are so carrie would you say that there have been improvements in other medical profession treatment effects people are not for a long time doctors seemed to discourage people from ever getting to meet other to sixty old folks on earth medical profession has been proactive in getting better that there's been forced on the medical profession and they can no longer a sport or how people get more education that has decreased the whole ethos of keeping things secret that used to be pretty would changes in

approach do you think would help medical professionals better comedy intersects people we do a really bad job of treating doctors to be culturally competent unlike to college muscle loss you see a tree arrange things that would allow them to communicate better with their patients is i want to be treated by just about everybody in the medical profession is not great import and i owe medical professionals get to listen to

patients who have a variety of different bodies in total disability for example to hear about people's experiences and also to send to the idea of treating people as human beings not as a series of pathology sally graduated from degree at any cost dr nora and what changes or cuts do you think might help medical professionals for comedy intersects people listen to keep going to sex advocates is that back and actually themselves as a profession

i am here for doctors because i used to be more than apologies for doctors thinking that we could work together out the meaning intersects activists thirty or six people or whatever turns you on heroes providers but then as i started doing that and in saying that i wasn't really leaving anywhere becoming less and less of an apologist for baptisms that they don't get a lot of information that these medical school students but when they do especially ease experts since or stream will mr cheeks intercept activists that we've always hear about doing on surgeries that are medically unnecessary and irreversible lying to their patients you can see new sudan inmates can justifications whether they're

saving us arrest for her appearance or what have you i just don't understand an falls unethical level are logical and i mean i understand in the sense of their medical authority everything else and actually think maybe born or ability will be helpful here then just as the lord and say you know i've been doing this for a long time and it's going to require me to sort of acknowledge that maybe what i've been doing it hasn't altogether she says surgery surgeries performed and people would say again so you are vulnerable and we truly listen and to enter six people and activists in and a whole slew of other artists myself and here you're saying isn't images argues many other organizations

organizations united are organizations that are united nations' excuse me to the world health organization and this is not just the us so this is a casting public radio's lgbt chief program produced by media for the public good in new york online ad out casting media dot org on this edition of casting new criticism and trio is talking with professors carry gabriel castello and george and davis about what it's like to be intersects and about issues faced by intersects people both of you have said that you're even surgical interventions an intense and others can't consent how does it work out when such enemies simply as mj's sex without being given a surgery army without even being assigned agenda recently published her paper when it intercepts children are between ages

eleven and twenty about their experiences and what i found is that they were all being intercepts and what prompted me to research reaches that i noticed how else sees a generation earlier your bill says generation or two interstates after his painting away and the intercepts rights movement reason visibility trans movement recent visibility about differences across counties and so many more discussions sal russo meeting all their diagnosis else

historically diagnosis from intercepts senate could not handle the diagnosis i suggest that's not the case today and i understand that today is a very different time than a generation or two ago but that's still to me is important to know that intersects if they're ok with that and they handle it you see variations and actually educate their science teacher their friends and it's just so incredibly powerful for example science teacher's teacher you have the xx is not always the male acts wise is not always male sure that these kids articulated that there were some pushback their difference and that's what is really comforting as an innocent activist and

an advocate of a sociologist ideas intersect i'm actually ok with that out of nowhere you know they're standing on the shoulders of listener six activists them in other activists across different challenging our understanding somebody's used their sexuality carry over to get more complicated to gender ferrying medical treatment leader ed from using his six people decide that they wanted surgery genital surgery our travels their surgeries weis becomes

ac chelsea genital surgery salter sensation in a society in which we have sexual relationships all the time when we talk about say genital mutilation in other societies to enjoy your work prison says she sang or else what he would like whether or not to have any sort of surgical interventions elected cervical region authorities are more likely to be more satisfied with it if you have a say in what it is you say what it was an easy sell it back to a besides the practical is it logical explanations

for wading into legion of failure the body is larger and there's also just something about it you desire this and ficarra desire to me how common it regardless of the outcome itself c advocacy many issues that intersect at sea generally focuses on i said their ability you reproduce a biologically are actually there are too many you know what's not commands as possible he among many intersects activists although certainly raising the visibility of doctors making sure that intersects people know that they're not allow

their visibility is so in terms of the general population how well do you think that most people understand what it means or what it's like the intercepts kerry today we made progress a more complicated understanding of sex gender and sexuality but you still take a biology class and it shows you to pictures of anatomy you are learning about sex everybody is still being educated in a system that explains sex marriage and does not convey there's variation for all of us and our sex characteristics six characters in general followed home people saw me or see me mostly intersects i imagine it's somebody with a non binary gender identity are still at a very basic level of understanding how people to understand better

we work you could do so that is just wrong or scary because if we were still talking about race in america and we just want to use the terms black and white and bright colors and we have a whole range of races and ethnicities and yet people keep coming back to black on white and what we need to do with conversations about sex is for people to understand that sex is just as complicated as race ethnicity our <unk> so kari hello do you find that most people within the lgbt community and descending into

sacks or anywhere else the same education money also saying biology textbook a lot of old he would be she knew full well sometimes it is now understand there's a difference i just let's zoom out beyond mainstream american culture you know about how and his six people are interested in different cultures scary throughout all of history and previously as part of our natural variation in just the same

things that every society has had to figure out how to deal with it he says societies have social rules so many other ways sally sally mann else where these are and there were leaves and being recognized within the years social religious communities as a person who is neither category there were

five six categories there seems like the most common in a world series and three and so that really helps get perspective on our own she says z's western medicine has been very busy what is allowed and normal out into the world in general so instead a story of three people so experiences becoming more negative just essentially i would allow us to see how it is so contrary will recognize that allowed to live in a social war

wilson singing how to recognize how we are exporting a particular vision of what normal bodies into a larger world beyond that is there any other way that you hoped to it seems mainstream views and being into sacks around sex offender in general terry forty four and four and textbooks has been a year of starting to be one step back into sex folks have been for so long me liam medical community then we haven't really been on the political radar and a negative thing that has happened was just starting to happen see lgbt she does well so for example this

summer so he's called a national statement signed by abortion conservatives evangelical intelligent it essentially says oh really listen to me bormann is an atypical body but they also say that they are introducing religion is that parents have to go out and find if there is any doctor who will sign into a sex assigned to a binary sex still sanders really busy inter sex

scary story and that we have to be prepared to deal with that because it hasn't been the primary focus and sex advocacy yet we've been most focused on the general education and i think also about our action against those who are going to want to vote to impose infant's surgery was you know required by a conservative this has been a great conversation george and carrie thanks so much for joining us great thanks i think it's been a great conversation thank you so much for having me on your program this has been the second part of our series on intersects both parts are available on our website a casting media dot org and that's it for this edition about casting public radio's lgbt q youth program where you don't have to be queer to be here this program has been produced by dr casting team

including youth bridges pins alex andrea dante truth griffin lauren when nikko mack sam and meet lucas our assistant producer alex nunes and josh about and our executive producer was more selfless podcasting is a production of media for the public a listener supported independent producer based in new york more information about podcasting is available at our casting media you'll find information about the show listen links for all how casting episodes on the podcast link out casting is also on social media to connect with us on twitter facebook and youtube about casting media if you're having trouble whether its at home or school or just with yourself call the trevor project hotline at a six six forty eight seven three eight six or visit them online at the trevor project a hawk the trevor project is an organization dedicated to lgbt q youth suicide prevention call them if you have a problem

being different isn't a reason to hate or hurt yourself i'll say it one more time it six six before eighty seven three six or online but the trevor project dot org you can also find a link on our psych testing media dot org and about casting lgbt q resources and lucas thanks for listening