OutCasting; Transgender identity and issues faced by trans people in sports (Part 3 of 4)

you know i felt more accepted by my straight sports teams then i did with an lgbt teens and that for me was a real eye opening experience about just how much tension there is within the lgbt community regarding whether or not the tables this is testing public radio's lgbt q youth program we don't have to be cleared to be here are casting as a production of media for the public good and a listener supported independent producer based in new york online about passing media dot org hi and i call on this edition of out casting we continue our discussion of some of the issues faced by transgender people in sports for most people gender is a simple matter they our girls or boys or women or men there is no conflict between the gender they feel they are i am the biological sex of their bodies but that's not true for everyone some people are going to a girl's body feel themselves to be now and some people blind into a boy's body feel themselves to be female speaking very wily the word

transgender has come into common usage to describe a wide range of people who self perceived gender does not match the sex of their bodies most of us have never needed a word to describe her gender identity we just took it for granted but just as the visibility of gay and bisexual people caused other people to start thinking of themselves as heterosexual or straight they're going visibility of transgender people has brought us the word says gender to describe people were not transgender most of us and most of you listening to this program are probably says gender but on this edition about casting were talking with christmas or an athlete who self identifies as a transgender guy chris is a transgender advocates educator coach and three time iron man triathlon he's the founder of trans athlete dot com a resource for athletes coaches and administrators to foster a community of inclusion this is part three of a four part series and parts one and two chris talks about going through

an identity change without anyone to guide him making himself comfortable with his body and the effects of negative media coverage of trans athletes at the end of part two chris was talking about trans phobia he's experienced out pass a travis now continues our conversation with chris this discrimination comes from oh starts very early and it's it comes from our families it comes from our media it comes from just the way our society is set up an end america we have such gendered roles and expectations of people what's the first thing that people ask when they find out someone is pregnant there's our girl is it a boy or girl mm what did they do after they find out if it's a boy or girl gave make decisions about what color will the baby's ruby is a pink is a blue genie by that baby dolls do we buy trucks ride and so there are very strict gender expectations put in

place on people from the womb basically end yet there are those expectations of little girls don't run around in the backyard with their shirt off even if it's ninety degrees outside that that's not something that's appropriate for little girls do so yeah i think it it comes from so many stores it's reinforced from so many forces i'm aware recently came from but it's all around us all the time and anyone who who blurs or or your breaks out of that by mary at people feel really threatened by that it seems do you feel like the sports community that you're a part of it is completely accepted an uncomfortable with you you know i felt more accepted by my straight sports leagues and teams then i did within the lgbt teams that i was that i was playing with and that for me was a real eye opening experience about just how much discrimination and

tension there is within the lgbt community regarding you know whether or not the team belongs and so that was a place where i expected them to have fully inclusive policies i expected to be able to go to the gym that i was competing in and to have a restroom facility that i could change in a vehicle dribble and that really didn't happen i expected folks not in this gender me when that when speaking about me and not to make jokes using slurs but that was really not my experience with an lgbt spaces and i think part of it was that it seemed to me that some of them thought that they got a pass that because they were part of the lgbt community and they were just joking that it would be ok for them to say certain things to me and that and i found that a real challenge to be in that space when a competing end and training with my usa straight i think they're

totally inclusive of any identity and ms has not a space where we talk a lot about gender identity or sexual identity is more of a social turning home after you know that many of them are straight so i would call my strictly by comparison they were fully on board like a sundae yeah i did the work to educate themselves supported me as a teenager and i'd really think that they were careful about the language that they chose an about you asking me the respectful questions and making sure that i felt like i was still part of that team do you consider yourself an activist i think that i am more of an advocate and that you know it's a meaning and activist is maybe a little more public than i am and i realize i'm your share my story openly and nine you know i'm a minute documentary that do radio shows like

this but i don't feel like i'm a mock they're doing marches and things like that and to me like an activist role in in my mind like that is a little more active in saying i'm here and i have a message and i want you to listen to me right now whereas i'm just to continue to do my work and hope that it impacts in certain ways and partner with people who who can help move my disability and my message forward about inclusion for trans athletes but i am utterly like labels i would recall summer education or activism certainly and i think being visible is this enough to get the message out for people the new york times published an article about you in two thousand alive and we've posed a link to the article on our website a casting media dot org it stated that you were about to compete in the newark city travel on for the first time as a man did you ever think you would be able to compete yeah i definitely

thought that i wouldn't feel a complete and i think even up until this year i had questions about whether or not i'd be able to compete in certain races and at that time i was just sort of an average age group athlete and the race director basically gave me his blessing and sad this is just somebody is out there to have on and participate in a sport they love so go for it and that was a really cool message to receive you know in such a large public way but once i became more competitive i needed to have that their peak use exemption form on file with usa triathlon and korea for the first couple of smaller races i did i didn't have that on file i knew that i couldn't compete as a woman but had i been tested you know technically we've been doping by their standards even though i were you didn't finish in the top ten it wasn't placing at

that time as i become more experience athlete and putting more hours a train and i've gotten better at my results have have been a lot better as well so now that i've been in winning races or placing in my age group it was important for me to make sure that was on file that i was legit to be able to compete that process however was really invasive i felt it required a lot of paperwork doctors notification and notes letter from my doctor stating my your medical history and you hormone levels ten years basically a thirty page thirty pages that i sent off about you everything of sexual health and testosterone levels in blood counts and you all sorts of stuff so there was a time period while they were doing that that i wasn't able to compete and

i was waiting for that ok so i got the okay now and according to the times article john cori who owned a new york city traffic on until two thousand thirteen so that he was in full support of your computing as a man that year he disagreed with the mess that trans men gain a competitive advantage when transitioning from female to male how did that affect you is getting batted in some ways because it was it was kind of just like a little bit of being like you know trans as well won't be competitive and you that's sort of how i heard it but also he was acknowledging the fact that it wasn't like i was going to take a shot of testosterone and then to smoke all the guys my age group because i was doping right air quotes on doping so that you know i'm i love that he was in full support of it and that he served boston that may have a little bit of you know while there's going to be an advantage and i think you as a trans guy i don't really face that myth very often i don't think a

lot of people think that trains guys are going to be competitive in sports i think we really see is trans women experiencing a lot of that discrimination based on the idea that they would have a competitive advantage in their sports over women is it justified to trends athletes have an advantage if you're transitioning from male to female know i don't think that it is and that there is you know a lot of policies in place about depending on the sports leagues about when a trans woman would be able to compete and most of them are based on hormones and you're being on testosterone blockers for a certain number of years and there been scientific studies that have shown that recent research has shown that trans women do not have an advantage over other women when when they are on estrogen estrogen is essentially a performance decreasing

drug so the testosterone that will be left in their bodies would be at the same level or less than whites so i think it's a good sign this is about casting public radio's lgbt q youth program produced by media for the public good in the online ad out casting media dot org we're talking about the experience of trans athletes with chris mosher the transgender advocates educator coach and three timeline and tri athlete he's the founder of trans athlete dot com a resource for athletes coaches and administrators to foster community of inclusion you mentioned that you had to provide all this documentation to be able to compete and was there a line that made you feel like your privacy was being invaded i think is that they wanted everything and so they wanted to know

the surgery centers and had i had any of body modification surgeries they wanted to see you results of pap smears like they wanted you to see information like that that i was really kind of like why add to see all of this like understand the testosterone levels but i was not comfortable with some of the other information going out leaving aside for now the question of people who wanted to find ways other than male or female do think that people who transitioned from female to male have different experiences in sports the people who transitioned from male to female absolutely i think that male privilege is a very real thing and i've experienced that in transit singing to be mailed see how people treat me differently and i think that sexism has a very real thing in sports and so he is someone who is transitioning the females gain a face not only trans phobia but also sexism

that exists in the world and so i think that their experience is very different and in many ways i think would be probably more challenging than the experience that i've had how do you feel about now identifying as a white male witches sort of that the top of the pyramid in terms of privilege it was a shocking experience to have that moment where i realized how real white male you proceed to be heterosexual privilege is in that nothing could have prepared me for that you know when did prepares me for that that is not something that i did that i saw in the youtube videos that is not something that will i discussed with other trans people it was a something that i experienced end the understanding of that experience sort

of came out a little bit before but after attending the social justice training institute which is a five day program that really dives into race and howl howard dominant insubordinate identities impact us in the world and having that experience of understanding that i have now become even more of them think the most privileged identity you know i loved that experience and so everything in a whole new light like you're walking into the corner store an end i would be greeted before someone who walked in right before me if she was a woman or a person of color red so that there are all of these really subtle but very real things that happen and advantages that i gained

in being perceived as a straight white male was it this five day experience that made you realize you were such a year in the privileged group or was it a moment in regular life there were a lot of moments leading up to that and i've been thinking a lot about how my shifting identity caused me to it didn't actually do cause me to interact with people in a different way because i was felt the same way inside it was just my outside appearance that sort of change for fox and not even that drastically because i always dress the same way that i've just now but he was more awe people read me and perceive me that change and so it wasn't that i felt that i was interacting with people differently but i notice that folks were interacting with me very differently once i started to be perceived as mel all time

to have an example comes off the top we're at the comments are all coming all of life and india so there were a lot of experiences that work in very subtle that many think that i wanted to attend social justice training institute to get a better understanding of what that actually was rays or anything and the social justice training institute about checking their privilege oh absolutely i think for me as a white person he was one of the first times that i actually sat down with a group of white people and talked about what it was like to be watched and talk about my privilege as a white person and that's something that most white people don't do and it was incredibly challenging to do that because i again felt like i didn't have the

words for it i've never been forced to think about my race in that way and just understanding that i've never been forced to talk about my race or explain myself based on my race or defend myself based on my race just understanding that was such a huge check of privilege talk a bit about your website trans athlete dot com and the impetus behind its creation when i was researching coming out and being an athlete and try to figure out ways that i can maintain my identity as an athlete but still be competitive i really wasn't finding a lot of resources out there that clearly stated what the policies were for trans athletes and there are various bodies of research and a couple of folks who do really great work around trans athletes particularly at the college level but i wasn't seeing a place where i can go to to figure out why you know what i have to do to be able to compete to continue to compete

so serve as a result of that i decided to make the web site in november two dozen thirteen as a place where all this information could just be housed as a central hub so that hopefully other athletes or coaches who have trans players or people just wanna be progress is an inclusive on their teams can go to the site see what other policies are out there and start to implement change in their own areas the site includes descriptions of various policies regarding trans athletes around the world what can trans people do if they see they don't have protections in the geographic area or in sports organizations in which they participate well they can always contact me and i can help them through the process and that's one thing that i put out a my website is that i love contributions to the site but also served as a resource now to athletes and coaches and sports leagues to help them kind of craft their policies and to take a critical look at the policies that have been place and see if they truly

are inclusive another thing that they can do is it be their own advocate and that that's a more challenging thing to do because it really takes a strong person to put themselves out there to be the one person creating this sort of change and that was a position that i certify myself in in various leagues and organizations when i first came out and i think if it takes a lot out of you to do that or took a lot out of me to do that so that's one approach and the other is getting allies to jump on board and help push in cruz's efforts forward you list five points for trans allies to remember it provided a link to them on our website a casting media dot org but can you briefly describe them the first point is respect allies should respect transgender people's names and their pronouns the second is confidentiality protecting the privacy of a

transgender athletes should be a top priority for any athletic department or affiliated school organization and it someone's trance that it should be kept as a need to know basis so in some cases athletes are out and in other cases they're not out the bait out themselves in order to participate in sports so folks should remember to keep that information confidential but they're going to support al i should listen and be supportive allowed trans people to tell you who they are and men respect them for luck the fort point is that every journey is different some trans people use hormones some do not some choose to have surgery others don't so it's important to remember that every trans person's individual experience is different and we can't really generalize what the trans experience is like and the fifth point is to educate yourself trans allies should chose themselves on their own

notions of gender roles and expectations using chris of language and continue their education on trans topics they need to educate themselves and not just rely on trans people in their lives to do all of the teaching for them we've been talking with christmas or transgender athlete thanks so much for joining us chris chris moser is featured in a film called just send it with six of the realities of transgender lives let's listen to a short excerpt today there is a greater ability for the transgender community to connect and both provide and received support harvard law cut credit said for i really believe that they should come out his family talk about gay lesbian people but we need the same call right now for trans people we've had in the showers for sealy and we need to stop it in the shadows and it has taken a pretty our bodies on the line and that's not what i'm saying it's not easy people come down to fantasia fair and many of them are first time

we've had and gals and boys who have come down here who have never gone outside on the street erin here you can watch some of these folks are coming from last few years and see changes in their lives and some have been very dear life and mr their transition and they become happy and us on issues that they are happy with their sentence we know it's i was every day especially parents tell us this they felt like a lifeboat had been rolled up to their sinking ship as they felt like they were all we began to see some of these children who come in very quiet very reserved and it's been neat to see them blossom and come alive and

weeks all people who drove around the building six or seven times before they finally walk and presenting as their preferred gender and for them define us greeting them at the door calling them by benign that they're presenting ma'am can i help you sir can i l p and also my realize they're in a safe place that values them for who they are and access them for what they were destined to be i just really felt that i was the only person in arkansas is just i was amazed actually to find out that there are so many people and so i felt the same way and just didn't have a place to go or i would say that you know i'm humbled by how many people have walked through the doors and how many people to come back once they've come in the room and it's it's a family i mean those are my closest friends and they are indeed my backbone and i'm just happy

ending for now that i can be the backbone to someone else while there are many miles to go the broader society in the united states is moving towards greater support of basic rights for the transgender community nationally after passage of a project in washington dc was a tremendous smile or for us it was the first federal legislation that actually knowledge instructions as well as losses we passed a very strong anti bullying bill and included sexual orientation and gender identity and we became the only be allowed to stay in the country to have a bill that includes specifically those categories if passed in the senate unanimously passed in the house by about three quarters vote they're listening to a short excerpt from the film just gender which looks at the realities of transgender lives is aimed at schools and corporate diversity programs among other audiences the film is available through keynote weber films

this has been part of a four part discussion with tri athlete ms mosier on the issues that transgender people face in sports you can listen to the series on our website now passing media that were on the next edition of our passing we continue our discussion of christmas cheer as he talks about how he's working to bring about change his advice a trans athletes and speaks about what being trans means and that's it for this edition about casting public radio's lgbt q news program we don't have to be cleared to be here this program has been pretty steady at passing team including you've participants nicole as sydney josh david travis andrew michael jamie tank margot joe and me a call our executive producer is mike service if you're having trouble whether its at home or at school or just let yourself call the trevor project hotline at eight six six for eight eighty

seven three eight six or visit them online at the trevor project dot org the trevor project is an organization dedicated to lgbt q use suicide prevention call them if you have a problem seriously don't be scared they even have an online chat you can use if you do not want to talk on the phone again the number is eight six six forty eight seven thirty eight six being different is not a reason to hate or hurt yourself i don't get a piece of paper and i'll say it one more time and eight six six or eighty seven three eight six boy i have the trevor project dot org you can also find a link on our city has seen media dot org and our casting lgbt key resources to pay a person is a production of media for the public good a listener supported independent producer based in

europe more information about the passing is available about passing media dot org you'll find information about the show notes and links for all our past episodes and the podcasting passing laws on social media connect with us on twitter tumblr facebook youtube instagram an outcast in media and nicole thanks for listening and join us again next time for part four