The Exchange; Interview with Orrin Hatch, Candidate for Republican Presidential Nomination

From New Hampshire Public Radio I'm Laura Conaway and this is the exchange. Utah Senator Orrin Hatch join the Republican race for president just two months ago. The senator admits he's a little behind. He recently told an Alabama audience he was more than a day late and a dollar short. It was two years late and thirty six million short. But Hatch says he's campaigning for real. I'm a 23 years in the U.S. Senate. He claims he's far more qualified than many of his rivals especially frontrunner Texas Governor George Bush is disturbed by what he calls the GOP coronation of Bush. We're talking about the toughest job in the world he says the presidency should be the culmination of a lifetime of public service. HATCH grew up poor in Pennsylvania. He moved to Utah in the 1970s and was elected to the U.S. Senate in 1976. He's chair of the prestigious Senate Judiciary Committee which has put him in the national spotlight several times especially during the Clinton impeachment hearings and the confirmation hearings for Supreme Court justice nominee Clarence Thomas. Eight years ago in general Hatch votes conservatively on

social issues and on most fiscal matters when it comes to health care and children. HATCH sometimes moves to the center working with his Liberal colleague from Massachusetts Ted Kennedy as a presidential candidate that shares many of the same ideas as other Republicans. He supports school vouchers a stronger military lower taxes. He's anti-abortion and pro-gun. Hatch also says he wants to bring together Americans of all classes and races. There's too much divisiveness in the country he says. Orrin Hatch is our guest today and we'd like to hear from you. We exchange phone numbers are 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 in Concord 2 2 4 8 9 8 9 and Senator Hatch welcome to the exchange. Thanks for being with us. It's nice to be here. So why should I vote for you for president. Well first of all you know I'm I'm an unabashed conservative who really does work hard to keep our fiscal affairs in order. I'm the author of the balanced budget amendment which has really been an argument to force this administration and everybody in Congress to live within their means. I have a legislative

record and a record of accomplishment that I don't think any other candidate for president can match. Ranging everything from the balanced budget amendment to to direct competition patent term restoration which is considered the most important consumer bill in the last 25 years and has made it possible for seniors to be able to buy their pharmaceuticals or their drugs at affordable rates rather than you know have to do without food. You can name a whole raft of other issues like the chip bill the child health insurance bill the child care development block grant. You can talk in terms of the doctor supplement health and education act all of these are bills that have been done by bringing Democrats and Republicans together in order to get something done. And then last but not least I think I'm one of the few who really does understand the people because I come from the people I came from poverty. There's no question that we had a very tough time as young people our parents lost their home right after I was born my dad borrowed a hundred dollars bought an acre of land and bought us a home out of a torn down

building that was black on three sides and had a metal gold dairy on one side. I always thought that was pretty neat until I found out it wasn't so. We didn't have indoor facilities. I raise chickens sold eggs door to door all over the community and we learned a trade. When I went to school I had to work as a janitor. And when Ted Kennedy found out that I once worked as a janitor to go to college he said Orrin he said you should have stuck with that. Oh that's it. That's typical Ted Kennedy humor. But I worked very hard all the way through Elaine and I when we went to law school we lived in that very same chicken coop where I raise chickens damn it plastered it and it wasn't a very nice place but it was good enough for us it was all we could afford. And then of course I practice law and Pennsburg rose to become a senior partner in the oldest law firm in Pittsburgh and then for my own law firm in the late 60s out in Utah. It sounds like in terms of policy you said you're a staunch staunch social conservative and yet you do seem to have steered toward the middle on some of these issues health care and so forth.

Well the fact of the matter is is that we've worked very hard on a wide variety of issues. I mentioned the joint price competition patent restoration bill that's called the hatch Waxman bill. Waxman is a very liberal Democrat in the house. And what that bill did is it created the generic drug industry which once a drug comes off patent it automatically is almost in every case reduced in price by 50 percent so that bill created the generic drug and you said the doctors supplement health and education act was a bill that helps everybody to have lower cost vitamins minerals amino acid than herbal products. That was done with Tom Harkin of Iowa the hatch Harken bill and it was a very important bill because 100 million people use dietary supplements in our society and the FDA wanted to have pre-market approval which means that the cost of vitamins and minerals would go up just like the costs of drugs have gone up and usually takes about 15 years. About a half a billion dollars to develop by a blockbuster drug. Well we don't want to have that happen in an industry where which is served the public well and is very well put together and where people do a very good job. Take the chip bill that's the child health insurance bill

that was to help the approximately 10 million children who belong to the poorest of the poor families not on Medicaid but whose parents work. Now isn't it awful that they're the only ones in our society left outside the loop who really didn't have health insurance. We decided we had to do something about that. So I got together with Ted Kennedy and that's called the hatch Kennedy bill and now they're up to seven million to eight million children in this society getting health care. You could just go right on down the child care development block grant came from one of your neighbors. That was the hatch Dodd bill. Chris Dodd from Connecticut. I decided that you know in our workforce 46 percent of the workers are women. But two thirds of those women are either single heads of household or they're married husbands who earn less than $20000 a year so they couldn't afford childcare. Now I believe the best form of childcare is having a parent in the home with the children. But since that wasn't reality I wanted to do the next best thing and that is provide some help and some aid to these single heads of household so they don't have to stay on welfare so they can work and sell their children or at least have the best form of

childcare. We could get them under the circumstances. I could go on and on but these are the type of things that. And I think one reason people ought to vote for me is I'm one of the few who has been able to bring both sides together and get things done in Washington and do it in a way that benefits people all over all over the country and really all over the world as well. There's another reason too. We're living in a very dangerous world. You know when there was just the Soviet Union and the United States as the two superpowers actually we were in better shape then from a standpoint of keeping conflict from happening than we are today. Today we're the sole superpower but there are at least 50 poisonous snakes. To paraphrase a former head of the CIA Woolsey out there who are developing biological chemical and nuclear weapons and they're very dangerous and most of them are antithetical to the United States of America. It's going to take somebody who understands this has had a lot of experience in foreign policy. I've been on the Senate Select Committee on

Intelligence. Two times I think there are only been two people in my recollection have ever done that. The other is the current secretary of defense Bill Cohen and I know an awful lot about what's going on around the world between the judiciary committee and the and the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence. We handle almost all the anti-terrorism problems and there are. So we should vote for you because of your vast as you would say legislative experience both in terms of consumer issues health issues and also foreign affairs. I think it's more than that. I was one of the five four or five people who helped convince Reagan that we should get rid of marginal tax rates from 70 percent and 19 80 down to 28 percent by 1986 and that's what's driving this economy to this day. Might also add it was the hatch Lieberman bill. Joe Lieberman from Connecticut. That reduced capital gains rates from 28 percent down to 20 percent. And of course keep in mind people at that time said well that's going to benefit the rich and will lose revenues. Actually it's benefited millions and millions of people who aren't rich who have pension

plans and who have invested in the stock market in mutual funds or otherwise. And instead of losing revenues we've actually gained revenues because because people have saved more invested more they've done more with their money and of course employed more people and more people are working. We actually get more revenues. So these are the type of things that I think keep an economy going keep our country going and I've been right in the middle of all of them but it's more than just a record of accomplishment. I think most people understand I do have a lot of ideas. I do have a record of accomplishment. I have more experience than any candidate running for president today including the two Democrats Gore and Bradley. And of course I've been known as a person who can bring both sides together and get things done. Last but not least you know one of the most important issues that is going to arise in the next in the next presidency is this. By the end of this president's term of office he will have appointed 50 percent of the federal judiciary and two Supreme Court justices the

next president is going to appoint the other 50 percent of the judiciary and three Supreme Court justices. I don't want that to be Gore. I don't want that to be Bradley because many of these 5 4 decisions that we value so much in criminal law in social justice in so many other areas are going to turn around and go six to three if they win with the Supreme Court I don't believe in what George Bush making those decisions either because he has no experience in this area whatsoever does not understand the finer points of the law will not understand how to pick these judges. And I think he'd be more moderate in his approach towards getting Law and Order judges and people who really will keep our society going in a good way. And I probably don't think there's any question about that statement I know more about how to pick judges and more about the judiciary than all the other presidential candidates put together. I think it's one of the most important issues driving me in this election for president today.

You're listening to the exchange on New Hampshire Public Radio. I'm Laura Conaway our guest today. Utah Senator and Republican presidential candidate Orrin Hatch. Hatch is known as a conservative on Capitol Hill especially on social policy but on health and children's issues he sometimes works with Democrats including a longtime friendship and collaboration with Senator Ted Kennedy of Massachusetts. 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 in Concord 2 2 4 8 9 8 9. Hatch says New Hampshire should vote for him because he has a lot of ideas a record of accomplishment twenty three years in the Senate and an ability to bring both sides together. Again 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 is the exchange 800 number. The concord number is 2 2 4 8 9 8 9. Remember it's your chance to talk with the presidential candidates and ask them about the issues that you care about. What do you think the candidates should be talking about. Give us a call 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 in Concord 2 2 4 8 9 8 9. I want to talk about the ideas that you have for the campaign but one more around specific campaign question. Huckabee got in so

late. Well you know I really was hoping that we would have people that I felt could win the election against the Democrats. And I decided that I that I felt look if I didn't feel I was a better candidate I didn't feel I could do a better job. I didn't feel I had more experience and that ability to end the divisiveness in Washington. I wouldn't run but that was one race and I just it took me looking at who was running. Secondly I wanted to make sure I got the right people to help us to run this campaign. And finally I was able to do so. Now last but not least I really believe that it wasn't too late. Yes it was late compared to other people. Yes it was late from a fundraising standpoint but you know when I ran in 1976 I thought of the last day at the last minute and nobody gave me a chance hardly anybody knew who I was but I just kept fighting and expressing myself and getting my point of view across when all the dust cleared. I'm the only incumbent running for Senate that

year whom U.S. News and World Report said cannot be beaten and became the United States senator from Utah where I've served now for 23 years. So it's nothing new for me to file late and I frankly believe that we can win this election. Of course one of the things I'm doing is I decided I was a little upset at how much money is being raised in different ways and I also was very upset that the establishment and the Republican Party seems to be picking our candidates without really any regard to what the people want. And I was a little a little uptight about that and frankly very upset about it and I decided I don't think that's right. So I said on July 1st when we found John it was just announced that George Bush had raised 36 million dollars not to put that in perspective there have only been five times in the history of this country before this year where a single candidate had raised 10000 $1000 contributions or 10 million dollars in this case he had already raised 30000 $1000 contributions and quern

Bradley had each raised 10000 $1000 contributions. I decided that if I could get a million people to give me $36 or more that I'd have as much money as he did on July 1st I wouldn't need any more than that and that I would run a people's campaign that I'd be for the people beholden only to the people I wouldn't be beholden to a bunch of fat cat establishment people. So I decided to look for all the skinny cats out there who would give $36 or more. And I'm running a campaign for the people. And oddly enough it's very difficult to do. But I think we're starting to we're starting to win on that. We've had checks from over 50 states now. We've had people Democrats and Republicans writing them saying you're our guy you're the person who's running for the people we're tired of the establishment picking our candidates without us having a way of expressing our own selections. And here's my 36 bucks plus. And please we hope you can win this election and continue to work for the people that's working. If you want to know how to do that

on the Internet it's w w w dot. Orrin Hatch I H A T C H dot org. And you can learn how to participate in this election and it's working. Now does that mean that you're a supporter of campaign finance reform. Of course I am but not the McCain-Feingold no. If McCain-Feingold passed that would destroy the Republican Party because it would take away all of the rights of the Republicans to get funds to do to get out their vote. The soft money. Right. Because we do not have one special interest group that it would even come close to the union movement in this country which many feel is an arm of the Democratic Party and they spend up to a half billion dollars every two years getting out the vote for Democrats even though 40 percent of union members and I used to be a union member. I'm one of the few people in Congress who learned a trade in as you and worked in the building construction trade unions as a member of the AFL-CIO for 10 years. But it has become a the AFL-CIO and other unions have become just arms of the Democratic

Party and in most of their money goes just to elect liberal Democrats. So what type of campaign finance reform. Well I think the best type of campaign finance reform is disclosure disclosure disclosure. What I would require is every candidate to disclose on the Internet their fundraising as it comes in and their expenditures as they go out but it also require both parties Democrat and Republican Party or any other party to get involved to make full disclosure instantaneously on the Internet as well. I go further than that I would require every corporation every business entity every union every other entity that wants to participate in the political process to list their income and expenditures politically so that everybody will know what money they have coming in what they're doing with the money how they're spending the money what groups they're supporting. And I think that wouldn't be the one way of helping everybody in America with the help of the

media of course to really understand who supported by whom and what's going on. Now how would that keep the so-called fat cats out of the process. Well I don't think you should keep the fat cats out of the process any more than anybody else. But what it would do is it would at least help people who are supporting whom. And it would it would certainly show that in the case of the three top runners in the election this at this time that they are supported primarily by the wealthy and by the fat cats of our society and it would also show that somebody like myself as a hasn't I haven't raised enough lot of money about a million dollars so far but I've only been doing it for about a month. But I'm supported by the people out there who are really sending in small donations by and large the skinny get the skinny cats. Let's go to the you and me and everybody else I have. Senator Hatch Let's go to the phones again the exchanged numbers 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. The concord numbers 2 2 4 8 9 8 9. You're listening to the exchange on New Hampshire Public Radio and our guest today is Utah senator and Republican presidential candidate Orrin Hatch.

He's been in the Senate for 23 years. HATCH announced his presidential campaign just about two months ago. Our first call is from Hartland Vermont. Laurie's on the air. Good morning Laurie. Go ahead. I want to ask a question about his environmental stance particular when it comes to the judges. I didn't know that Clinton had a 50 percent win there. Eighty one judge. Oh they will not. Your judicial committee will not approve anyone that comes forward. Now I'd like to know where you stand on the environment particularly our public land. It a bill now for selling BLM land to ride writer actually and I know that when they're gone gone for ever there's no second vote them you can clean up the air you clean the water later but you once you get those lie on the wall. And I know who's supporting you know Kolpak hall and the real estate brokers of America which is another undemocratic organization Michel. They decide where their money goes.

And so enormous. Where is that on the public line where does he stand on the sale of public lands. Well Larry I represent a state that has 70 percent on from a public plan standpoint. It is there all the time around the mall. And that's one of the most gorgeous states in the union you make a good point. I'm totally opposed to the sell off of public lands and will not allow that to happen and you're on the other hand. Utah is also mineral rich in this country. It's critical for us excuse me too we don't be penny wise and pound foolish and tie up the minerals that may be essential in our national security interests. On the other hand I think that if you're going to develop minerals you ought to be able to do it in an environmentally sound way. So there has to be some balance. We have to balance between having a beautiful environment clean air clean water which all of us want and of course having jobs for our people so that we can live and earn living and support our families. And so I basically an environmentalist who wants balance in what we do and of course we'll protect our beautiful Utah lands and our public lands all over the country. What we do resent in Utah is

somebody coming in from outside and telling us that we don't know how to preserve and protect our own lands. And that does get a little irritating from time to time. For instance there are environmentalists who would like to tie up upwards of 10 million acres of Utah and of course we've studied these lands we've studied the BLM studies we've done everything we possibly can and we know how to protect all those lands. Remember when you make something wilderness what you do is you prevent any kind of mechanization to even go on those lands even to preserve the watershed which is absolutely critical to people in Utah and people in the western states. Water is more important to us than gold and in many respects. So it's very important that we balance the environment with the needs of the people. But at all times preserve our public lands. No I'm glad you asked the question. Thanks. Thank you. Thank you Larry. Her question raised another one in my mind there have been several attempts in Congress to increase the fees that miners and

ranchers pay in the northeast we call it a huge example of corporate welfare that some of these companies get such low rates to be able to mine or ranch public lands where have you stood on that issue. Well we're willing to do that. But it has to be raised to increase the fees you because keep in mind a lot of the minerals that have been found in the West have been found by prospectors who don't have a lot of money. And so you foreclose them from being able to do the finding that literally big companies can't afford to spend the time on. And so there's a balance in everything. And my attitude is let's let's do things in a balanced reasonable decent way and if we do everybody benefits what's reasonable. Well that depends on your point of view of course. But for those of us who live with these problems every day we think it's reasonable to to continue to give incentives to the single explore or pioneer or a prospector who may be able to find these minerals that really will be critical to our country's needs if we ever do get in another world where we ever do get into a conflict where we can't get these in

general. So I think it's very important that we we be very careful how we balance everything. But above all we don't want to have our lands destroyed. We don't want to have a dirty air dirty water. We want to have clean air and clean water on beautiful lands. And I think we can do all three. Senator Hatch you've been talking a lot this morning about balance and bringing people together. I wonder where that fits in with the issue of abortion. That's a very difficult issue for everybody but especially Republican candidates. Well I think it is for both sides. You know if you're if you're pro-abortion. There are a lot of people don't understand why you can just have indiscriminate abortion on demand. If you're pro-life then there are a lot of people who say well why should women have the right to choose what they do with their bodies. Well it's a religious belief with me. I'm pro-life and proud of it. I would permit abortion to save the life of the mother naturally and for rape or incest. I have three daughters and of course three sons and we have 19 grandchildren.

Most of them are our girls. And I have to tell you that I'm very concerned about their lives and very concerned about the way they're treated. I think the partial birth abortion ban issue has gotten most people in this country and others a majority who are really against abortion in this country according to the most recent polls. And one reason is because when they realized that the pro-abortion folks are even for keeping partial birth abortions alive as brutal as that seems to be and as unnecessary that seems to be a lot of people are starting to wake up to hey this has gone too far and that we need to have some reasonability in this. But with me it's a personal religious belief and I'm not going to change even though I respect other people's points of view. Nor do I condemn people who disagree with me on this issue. I respect their points of view. I just don't agree with them. How does that translate into what Orrin Hatch as president would do. Well Orrin Hatch as president would be pro-life there's no question about it. And

my 23 years in the Senate has I think have proven that and I'm very I'm very much committed to the rights of the unborn. You know we protect unborn rights from a state standpoint. Seems odd that we don't consider them human beings before they're born and especially those who are viable those who we know could live outside of the mother's womb if they happen to be born. So these are very tough ethical and moral questions. But I don't want to do is condemn somebody who has made the mistake of getting an abortion. I know I know literally hundreds of people maybe thousands who have had abortions who are good people who who feel very badly about it today. One of the most important organizations was women exploited by abortion. These are women who had abortions who then went through unholy hell because of what they had done and are very much anti-abortion today it was very

interesting listening to them on the other hand who am I to condemn somebody else because they have a different point of view and we need to take a break. But I just want to ask you about specifics if you were president would you only appoint judges who shared your point of view. Would you as president actively promote a constitutional amendment to ban abortion. The sorts of specific moves. I'm the only one that I remember in the Congress history of the Congress who brought a constitutional amendment on abortion to the floor of either house of Congress and basically said that we would turn over the right to determine the issue of abortion to the legislatures both the federal the state with the more restrictive law applicable. We got 50 votes. It was 50 50. It really showed how divided this issue really is. And we got rid of a lot of the phony myths that had arisen with regard to abortion. The other part of the question was the judges the judges. Well I've been one of those who has said that when I was asked about George W. Bush saying that he would not have a litmus test for judges. I said I agree with that. I don't think that any single issue should prevent people from

serving in the federal judiciary. But naturally I would like to have judges who are not activists. In other words who do not substitute their own policy preferences for what the law really is. I'd like to have judges who recognize that the rule of judging is to interpret the laws made by those who are elected to make them and their job is not to make the laws because they're nominated and confirmed for life and their job is to interpret the laws. And I would make sure we had the best judges possible across the board who would do what's right for our country in accordance with the laws. In a moment we'll take a lot more of your phone calls and we'll talk with Senator Hatch about other issues including health care and gun control. Stay with us if you're on the line. Stay there. This is the exchange on New Hampshire Public Radio. Tuesday on the exchange the latest Clairemont education funding lawsuit and what may happen next. Join us tomorrow for the exchange. Support for the exchange on New Hampshire Public Radio comes from our contributing listeners and we also received

support from New Hampshire Antiquarian Book Fair featuring naughty booksellers Sunday September 19th 9:30 a.m. to 4 p.m. at Everett arena concord with information at 5 2 6 6 6 5 4 from public service of New Hampshire our commitment to the United Way and other not for profit organizations that make a difference in age. Supporting your life in every moment and from standard plumbing and heating supply of Portsmouth New Hampshire is only full service Basho showroom offering American and international products including Elger and tell. Me. This is the exchange on New Hampshire Public Radio. I'm Laura can join our guest today. Utah Senator and Republican presidential candidate Orrin Hatch Hatch says he wants school choice lower taxes more military spending. He describes himself as pro-life and pro-Second Amendment meaning he opposes most gun control. Senator Hatch also says he wants to end class and race warfare in America and bring different peoples together. Orrin Hatch has represented Utah

in the U.S. Senate for 23 years. He announced his presidential campaign about two months ago. Give us a call we'd like to hear from you this morning. 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 in Concord 2 2 4 8 9 8 9. It's your turn to talk with the presidential candidates who are visiting New Hampshire and ask them about the issues that you care about. Again 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 in Concord 2 2 4 8 9 8 9. Senator let's go back to the phones for a moment here we'll talk some more before the next calls from Hinsdale Kenneth's on the air. Hi Kenneth. Go ahead you're on the air. I've got a question. What happened on corporate America AM pay a decent wage where people can have health and food medical costs. I'm a taxpayer. Pick up the slack. Well that's a good question. I think corporate America by and large aren't they. They are paying decent wages because they're they're much above the minimum wage in almost every instance. There are some notable exceptions and they ought to change their ways

to be honest with you. I think most people in corporate America are doing a better job and I think one reason they are is because many of them don't want unions in their facilities. And so in order to keep unions out they're willing to treat employees better and in a sense that's a very good thing. And I'm one who has encouraged employers to do that. Kenneth are you a supporter of an increase minimum wage. Is that what you're talking about. I think personally minimum wage is a living wage in a way and it's just and good for corporate America to be subsidized through the taxpayer to make up. Like I said take up I guess the person after like 10 12 or so dollars now or take home pay just exist the minimum wage that's around six $7 an hour whatever it is. I'm concerned is just a waste of effort or whatever just to maintain something like that. And I know what I will grow up to draw with $13 an hour.

Probably not wage you see. Well kind of thanks for the call I got. Oh sure OK. And I also am opposed to gun control. Well I want to ask Senator Hatch about that. So thanks Kenneth because you have a plan on gun control I'm glad he raised it called the hatch 10 20 life program. What is that. Well I think we've got to get tough on the use of guns for instance this administration off about new laws for gun control all the time and they're not enforcing the current laws. For instance we found out that there have been 65000 people who have been caught on the instant check program when the internship program is an Orrin Hatch program. We knew that Brady wasn't going to work with a five day delay. What really works is instant check and it's not fully implemented because this administration spent so much time talking about Brady. But what happens is as with the instant check program we can determine whether people are violating the law or when they try or have violated the law when they come to purchase a gun. They've cut 65000 since the 1st of this year. Guess how many

prosecutions. Sixty four or six. And no 23000 since the first year and they have 65 prosecutions. You know it's illegal to take a gun to school. They caught they catch six thousand a year. Guess how many prosecutions in the last two years. 13. What I'm saying is that this administration Maslov about gun control and the need for more laws and the need for total registration the need to have everybody subjected to federal rules and regulations while they're not enforcing the current law. So what I would do is I'd get a lot tougher on people who use guns. For instance if a person commits a crime and has a gun on their person they get an automatic 10 years without parole. That's the 10 of them. Right. If they commit a crime with a gun on their person then they fire that weapon even though they don't hurt anybody it's nomadic 20 years. If they commit a crime with a gun on their person and they fire that gun and they hurt somebody they get automatic life. I'll tell you it wouldn't take long to burglars and others would not be carrying guns wherever they go. We also have the

hatch provision in the juvenile justice bill that if a young person a teenager uses a gun in the commission of a crime that young person will be forever barred from owning a gun. And I think when young kids start to realize that there are consequences to their actions when they start realizing not just young kids everybody that there are rules that I think they're abide by by the rules but I'm a strong strong pro second amendment leader and I've been one of the strongest leaders in Congress from the beginning. This 10 20 life plan seems to work after the fact after somebody has done something wrong with a gun. What about before the fact. Well it works before the fact because once that becomes known by by those who are likely to commit violence they're going to they're going to think twice before they carry a gun. And I think ultimately that'll be the one thing once it's implemented that will cause people to quit using guns in the commission of a crime. Do you think people really think twice. I think most people think they're not going to get caught. Well crimes of passion that's true but a lot of the people

who commit felonies and who do it regularly are people who think it through before they do it. And I think you'll find burglars entering homes and entering business facilities not carrying guns. But there's only one way to find out and that is to get tough. And I think if you get tough you generally see the incentives go the other way so that people will not use guns in the commission of crime. Again you're listening to the exchange on New Hampshire Public Radio. Our guest today is Utah senator and Republican presidential candidate Orrin Hatch. We'd like to hear from you this morning your questions or comments for hatch and general Presidential Questions 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 in Concord 2 2 4 8 9 8 9. We've talked already about abortion. Hatch says he is solidly pro-life. We've also talked about gun control. Excuse me. Crime Control issue that he has in his campaign 10 20 life program. What do you think of that. After 10 years if you've committed a crime with a gun you would get 10 years if you fired the gun you'd get 20 years if you hurt somebody you'd get life. Hundred 8

9 2 6 4 7 7 in Concord 2 2 4 8 9 8 9 of the exchange phone numbers give us a call we'll take your questions and comments for Orrin Hatch. Let's go next to Marlboro. Jones on the air. John good morning. Hi good morning. I'd like my good. I have a question and I'd like to make a comment to that OK. All right you're OK. The question is this. If I have a hundred dollars that I want to donate to you Will you accept it. No I couldn't because under the current rules I can only set the thousand dollars from you. Well supposing I'm a corporation. I wouldn't be able to be a lawyer because the laws are against it. In other words a corporation could not donate to me. Now where corporations can donate is soft money to the respective parties which they do and that money is generally used to get out the vote. So if I if you had if I could make a donation like the fat cats will make a donation to George W.. Would you then take it. I mean George is getting his money from stocks. In other words if you were willing to give me a thousand dollars as a regular citizen out there sure because it might not be Saturday if I were willing to do what you're complaining.

The big wigs have done with George W. these raise 30 million dollar probably probably close to 60 million today. But he hasn't raised the individual donation. Yes yes yes yes he has in other words the way he's look I'm not condemning George Bush for raising all that money. I think that's great that he can do that. You know and that his campaign team can do that. What I am saying is is that almost all of his money comes from thousand dollar contributions that can come from PACs. Yes he gets some from PACs a political action committee can give up to $5000. So are you accepting though. Well if yes if anybody wants to send and send it in we'll accept it. But what I don't understand sir. You're complaining about that. A lot of very wealthy sources are contributing to him you called them fat cat. But you don't want any finance you don't want any campaign financial control. No no no you're wrong. No I'm not complaining about that. I think he has every right to have any fat cat who wants to give him money. Now listen I don't think because a

person gives a thousand dollars or necessarily a fat cat I know what I'm talking about here are the establishment people in the Republican Party who pick our presidents a very narrow small group of people who can give the thousand dollars and raise a hundred a hundred thousand to a million dollars for a campaign fund raiser. No what I'm saying is this. I think anybody can legitimately take a thousand dollars from any citizen who wants to give it to them or $5000 from a political action committee that's the law. But what I'm really looking for I won't turn those down naturally but what I'm looking for is a broad cross-section of our people out there at least one million of them to give me $36 some more. And if I do that then I'm only beholden to them. And frankly I wouldn't be beholden anyway because I'm going to do what I think is right no matter what happens. Jonah just that's the way my political career has been. I think that's one reason why I've never been part of the establishment. Don't want to move on but would you like to add a final comment.

Yes I am what I consider a good and caring person and I do not like abortion at all. And I hope they see. But I am pro-choice and I feel uncomfortable having you call people like me pro abortion. I much would prefer it if you would use the term pro-choice because I think it's more accurate. All of us who support a woman's right to have abortion don't want people to go around getting abortions willy nilly. I think I think that's a very good criticism because it's because most people who claim to be pro-choice today probably are anti-abortion they don't like abortion anymore than the people who are pro-life. And so I take that criticism very very well because I think you're right on that. But there are people who drive that issue who I would call pro-abortion who literally want abortions no matter what happens some of them believe in population control. And frankly I think they're just totally off of the beam. Joan thanks for coming in this morning. Thank you. All right bye bye. 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 in Concord 2 2 4 8 9 8 9. I want to talk to you

just briefly about health care. In a recent speech you said that Americans deserve affordable quality accessible health care where doctors make the most important decisions and of course that's a big issue today with the patients bill of rights and all sorts of lawsuits coming up. What would you as president do to make sure that Americans got as you say affordable quality accessible health care where doctors make the decision course I've passed probably more health care bills than any other senator in a lot of them have been done with with Senator Kennedy from your neighboring state of Massachusetts. Senator Dodd Senator Harkin and Congressman Waxman a whole raft of pretty liberal Democrats who have been willing to come to the center in order to work with me to get a lot of a lot done in health care. But I believe the best form of health care is is of course to be able to make your own choices as to which doctors you go to and which hospital you go to. And of course having a full system of evaluation in our

lives to make us more healthy and to choose healthier lifestyles. There's no question that we have too much federal government in the health care system and every time you start making something quote free unquote It never turns out to be free turns out to be very costly turns out to be less available than before. Turns out to not work as well as before. So what we want to do is give as much incentives to the private sector to create them which already has the best health care system in the world and to keep that system going at the lowest possible affordable prices. One of the problems is is that in the case of Medicaid Medicare almost all the funding comes from the federal government today. In other words from the taxpayer swigged the federal government and HC for the health care financing administration and and AGW and these have become so bureaucratic and so rule oriented that the costs are escalated and driven up to such a degree that basically our health care system is in danger of cratering and not making it through. I think we've got to get a whole new approach towards health care that emphasizes the private

sector more and minimizes the government regulation and control of health care. But while Gimp's the gives the individual citizen the right to choose what form of health care they really want to have and the doctor they want to provide it. How do you do that. Well it's a whole system of incentives to the private sector. So there is some government role there. Well there's government role because Medicaid and Medicare are two of the biggest financers of those programs are the biggest financing systems for the health care system. But we ought to minimize the role of government as far as determining how the health care system should go unless the system is not working for the people. I'm sure you're aware that there are states around the country where people are asking for more government control they're saying please order the HMO to at least cover this this this and this and this well and that's true. And of course if we get total government control will wind up like England where you wait six months for for an operation or maybe two years for an operation where there's a priority system that basically just doesn't work where doctors have no

incentives to really work hard. They just do the minimum and get it done every day. And if you are if you're left outside waiting to have your fracture fixed. That's just tough. And that's the way it would be I'd rather have our i'd rather have a health care system of choice where people can really make their own choices as to what form of health care and make their own choices doctors make their own choice of hospitals and then make sure that we provide the care in the best possible way we can. Let's go next to Bedford Frank Sonnier from Bedford. Hi Frank. Good morning Senator. Morning. Good morning. Two things first of all you mentioned at the beginning that the Democrats raised 500 million dollars in the last congressional cycle. No no no when you get those numbers from know that that's not the Democrats. That's how much the union movement puts in every two years according to the Congressional Research Service. It's a half billion dollars every two years. And basically politically political oriented activities total funds raised in

1996 with $370 million by the Republicans and two hundred and ten million directly with 500 million votes directly by directly by the parties. Those are funds that have to be reported. The AFL-CIO and other unions. They can they can raise unlimited funds that are unreported and spend those funds in very partisan ways and they according to the Congressional Research Service raise about a half a billion dollars every two years for local state and federal elections. There's nothing in the Republican Party to compare with that. Well as a former union member I'd be delighted to give up that money and give up all the soft money so that people didn't have to sell your souls out to the highest bidders because I think it's ruining the democracy that we cherish. Well as a union member myself I have to tell you I don't disagree with that. But the problem is is that you can't you can stop you can stop. You can limit donations directly for political purposes but under

a Supreme Court rulings you cannot limit them the indirect expenditures. And so even if you cut out all soft money the indirect expenditures by the unions cannot be stopped and there's nothing in the Republican Party that comes close that would provide the get out the vote funds for the Republicans. Surely in some way we can that we can go around but the other issue I don't know of any way constitutionally because of the freedom of speech. The other issue I want to deal with Senator is these hundred ninety two billion dollar Republican tax cut. But right now we have a national debt of five and a half trillion dollars. And about 90 percent of it was run under Ronald Reagan's watch with a Republican Senate for six years. We're paying at the moment on a monthly basis. Twenty twenty billion dollars. Interest on that debt and on a daily basis six hundred seventy two million seven thousand dollars a second interest on the debt. To me the biggest thing we ought to be doing

economically is paying down Reagan's five and a half trillion dollar national debt not running up you know returning 900 billion dollars and letting that debt just continue to take away. I just don't understand why Republicans would do something so stupid except to pander to the public. OK you made some pretty interesting points. First of all the deficit were the cause during the Reagan years were not all Reagan's remember. The Democrats took over control of the Congress during those years and throw out all of the Reagan years. The House of Representatives were all money bills originate has to originate was controlled by Democrats or whatever. No Senator. Well that's fine but you get the money bills originated there and in order to get the tax rate reductions that Reagan wanted the marginal tax rate reductions. He had to concede all kinds of expanding spending programs that put us into bankruptcy now. True. Reagan did spend for the military but put that into perspective. He actually got the military spending up to about

26 percent. Compare that to John F. Kennedy where it was 49 percent of the budget. Let's talk about the tax cut and Frank thanks for the phone call. Let's go to the address Glenda that was an interesting phone call because I think it's one of the misconceptions a lot of people have about the tax relief program that it will pay down the debt. Well first of all we set aside three quarters of that 2.9 trillion dollars for deficit reduction and for saving Social Security and Medicare. Three quarters of that money's been set aside by Republicans. We don't think it's wrong to set aside 25 percent of that money to give the taxpayers some relief from the 40 percent average taxes that the average household is paying at a wartime tax rates the highest in history. Now let me just add to that here's what the Republicans have done. Now tell me that this is wrong. They cut 1 percent marginal tax rates across the board for every taxpayer. What's wrong with that. Number two they get rid of a marriage penalty that basically

is causing people to not want to get married today because get penalized tax wise if you get married we get rid of that awful penalty. Thirdly we've reduced capital gains rates from 20 percent to 18 percent and almost everybody in America is involved in the stock market to a degree and it keeps the economy going. Fourthly we get rid of those awful death taxes. Where are the family. Look the wealthy avoid the death taxes because they could afford expensive lawyers to set up a complicated system of trust. But the average family farmer the average small business person they may be land rich an asset rich but cash poor when they die. The families have to pay the 55 percent death tax rate. That literally caused them to have to sell the family farm or the family business. That's ridiculous especially since death taxes only produce about 16 billion dollars a year. Be far better to have the rich productively using their funds. We'd get a lot more revenues by them productive productively using their funds than by that phony death tax. Now that's what the Republican

tax relief bill does. What's wrong with that. I have to tell you I don't know anybody wants to hear that explanation. Who won't say gee you're setting aside three quarters of the money for debt reduction for for Medicaid Medicare and and and and those type of things and you're only giving a quarter back to the people by gosh that sounds pretty doggone reasonable and I think it is we have time for one more phone call. Andrew your last caller we got just a couple of minutes left. Go ahead please. Yes it is and you've got just a couple minutes left and I'm going to tell you to keep it short. OK. Senator I wanted to ask you if you think about the international scene I guess I'm short politically about the former Soviet Union Russia obviously has a lot of weapons and it seems that the economy is going to going to hell there. And I know the United States spends money to help scientists stop stop selling their secret or their weapons. I want to ask you what are your guidelines for dealing with Russia.

Good question and I'm going to let you go because of time concerns and Senator Hatchell Russia has 30000 warheads. We have to be very tough about dealing with Russia. What we want to do is continue to help them to come into a democratic regime and an approach over there. It's not working as well because of corruption. And we've got to get tough on a wide variety of ways so that they realize that that will help them. But they're going to have to they're going to have to live in accordance with certain rules and principles. But we've got to make sure that they don't sell or transfer these nuclear weapons to some of these 50 poisonous snakes States. To paraphrase paraphrase James Woolsey who would love to get their hands on them and cause havoc all over the world and especially these terrorists like Osama bin Laden who I warned the president of in 1996 on Meet the Press. I said he's going to kill American citizens. And of course nothing was done until he killed American citizens. Now they're all concerned about Osama bin Laden and other terrorists that we've been warning him about. So we need a tougher president we need a tougher administration and I think I could provide that.

I have to ask you one more political question. Sure. There's news this morning that your fellow Republican Pat Buchanan may leave the race for the Reform Party but really it's about. I really can't believe that because Pat's been a great Republican all his life he's really a great human being his sister Bay is one of our close friends and and they're good people but I just can't believe that. But if he does I think it will hurt the party. That's why I think you've got to have a new word. Hatch who is out there getting a million people to give $36 or more. And if I get a million I'll get 3 million because I'll be the only person who can draw both Republicans and Democrats together and get this thing solved for the people rather than for all kinds of special interests. Nobody could ever call a special interest person because I've done what's right my whole Senate career and I've been able to bring people together in my whole Senate career and I would continue to do that. Senator Hatch as far as we know you are the only presidential candidate who has a second career as a songwriter and piano player and singer sometimes performer. You've released several CDs you've written hundreds of songs for others. Could you walk Hammerstein a few bars from your phone.

No I'm not going to do that. No that would cause me the loss of this race right off the bat. I'm not much of a piano player but I do write lyrics and I've been writing with four wonderful musicians three from Nashville and one from Utah and our first CD was of course 10 13 inspirational songs. The second one happened to be it's called Freedom's light happened to be 10 patriotic songs and then we wrote another inspirational in a number of other inspirational CDs including a Christmas one. I've had more fun doing that it's been a lot of fun for me. And you know I get a lot of my thoughts in writing from a musical standpoint and people seemed to like them all over the country right now. And one of our inspirational songs is on the charts. It's called Oh my goodness. You know how it's called. Well they they changed the name of it at the last minute but it's sung by a wonderful woman named named Natalie Grant who they're making into a superstar. She's a cross between Meg Ryan

and Faith Hill and it's called you walked beside me. And so I think she calls it I am not alone you know care to sing No I don't think so. OK then we have another song that will be in a movie that will come out in October for ABC it'll be at the end of the movie. All right well thank you very much for joining us today. Nice to be with you. You're a great interviewer. Utah Senator and Republican presidential candidate Orrin Hatch he's been in the U.S. Senate for 23 years. He announced his presidential campaign about two months ago. The exchange is a production of New Hampshire Public Radio. The producers are Eric Erickson and Mary Kruger are engineers Nathan Irwin and I'm looking. At