The Exchange; Interview with Republican Presidential Candidate, John McCain

From New Hampshire Public Radio I'm Laura Conaway and this is the exchange. Presidential candidates want to make headlines but the right kind and unfortunately for Senator Arizona Senator and Republican presidential candidate John McCain many of the headlines lately about his campaign have been negative. Just this week a campaign staff shakeup but the resignation of key longtime aides amid abysmal financial reports. Then earlier the Supreme Court's whacking away his campaign finance law and the failure of a broad immigration bill that McCain had championed. Meanwhile polls indicate voters continue to sour on the American military presence in Iraq and McCain who continues to support that policy. On Tuesday as the Senate debated the defense authorization bill McCain again outlined why he believes the U.S. must stay the course in Iraq. Even as more of his fellow Republicans jumped ship. No one can be certain whether this new strategy which remains in the early stages and bring about greater stability we can be sure. Should the United

States Senate seek to legislate an end to this strategy. It is just beginning. And we will fail for sure. And despite Iraq and other difficulties don't count John McCain out yet. Those who know the Arizona senator say never underestimate him. McCain's friend and presidential rival Rudy Giuliani calls a senator a fighter and says it's way too early to write anyone off. And this week John McCain returns to the Granite State with a new fervor and a new strategy one that harkens back to his enormous victory in the 2000 New Hampshire primary. In exchange U.S. senator and Republican presidential candidate John McCain is here. We want to hear from you too. We'll take your questions for Senator McCain at 1 800 8 9 2 6 or 7 7 1 808 9 2. HPR. Senator McCain we were talking before the program began. Hard to believe it's been eight years since you walked into this studio. Welcome back to the exchanges. Nice to see you all. Thanks Laura. In the meantime you have two children and congratulations and

it's great to be back with you and a lot has happened in the intervening eight years. Well I'm going to talk about that the country feels like a very different place from the last time we talked September 1st 1999. I want to hit right off the bat Senator McCain with the new assessment on progress in Iraq that was released this week not a report card you want to show your mother satisfactory grades on only eight out of 18 benchmarks unsatisfactory grades in critical areas like the ability of Iraqi security forces to operate independently from the U.S.. What's your reaction Senator McCain to this. Not so great reporter and I'm not surprised. I think that there are areas that we can look at with some satisfaction and I think there's other areas that are frustrating. I just came back from being over there last week and traveled around the country went to Ramadi met with General Petraeus and others and had a chance to visit with the troops and and by the way I was present at the reenlistment ceremony of 688 young servicemembers who re-enlisted over

there in 128 who received citizenship. There's a program as you know people who if they join the military they have an accelerated path to citizenship. It was a little sad because two of the people who were scheduled to take part in that ceremony had been killed that week. You can imagine that that had an effect but very briefly and we'll make it brief and I'm sure they'll be callers who want to me to elaborate. The military progress has been satisfactory in a number of areas Anbar Province some of the other some parts of Baghdad et cetera. General Petraeus who's a fine general we got a good strategy now after employing a failed strategy for nearly four years. I've been very disappointed in the Iraqi government. Iraqi government has not passed the laws and acted in an inclusive governmental fashion that is necessary if you really want to make progress because in these kinds of conflicts you just not only

have to have military success but you have to have political and economic progress. And so if there's an area that I'm very worried about it's the divisions within the Maliki government between Sunni and Shia with sort of the Kurds sitting on the sidelines where we have not seen that progress. And that's that's my greatest concern. There was even in the report to the Maliki government might have had so-called target lists of Sunnis very disturbing in terms of government reconciliation. Well I was in one area and the general the general were briefing us and we met with a Iraqi general who was fine an Iraqi mayor. They submitted a list of people they wanted to be in the police that had volunteered in place. The list came back from Baghdad with only Shia on it. They had taken out all of the Sunni. Well you can't govern that way. You cannot expect to get the support of the people.

So that's just an example of the kinds of difficulties that this government is having functioning and I my only hope is that they're about to stare at the abyss and will be motivated to act in a more inclusive fashion frankly oil revenue sharing the bath vacation and elections in the provinces since the Sunni now want to take part in the elections which they boycotted in the past. So in other steps what is the abyss. Senator McCain the U.S. leaving. Oh yeah. Look the thing that's a little bit frustrating to me about this debate is that the people who want to withdraw are not telling us what they think is going to happen if we withdraw. Now I'm challenging that regularly and I should be. Well McCain what's your plan B. You know all I'm saying. What you are. And if you look at literally every literally every Not all but

every well known national security adviser whether it be Brent Scowcroft who was against the war General Zinni Henry Kissinger all of them just about and there are many exceptions but a lot of the people I respect let me put it that way say that if you set a date for withdrawal it will be a chaotic situation in the wake. Now we've got to get other countries in the region involved. We've got to convince them that it's in their interest not to see this thing erupt into a regional conflict. We've got to do a lot of other things but to set a date for withdrawal in the view of most people I respect and know not all that you would see a chaotic situation that would literally engulf the region. So how do you get American forces out there if you don't set a date and by the way many of your fellow Republican senators are starting to lean toward some sort of date for withdrawal.

Yes they are. And I understand that and I wish this debate were more respectful. I wish the immigration debate had been more respectful. I think one of the problems in our political environment today is we're not more respectful of each other's views and I've tried very hard in this debate on the floor of the Senate that I've been engaged in all week to be more respectful and I understand the frustration anger and sorrow that people feel the war was terribly mismanaged by Rumsfeld and others for three and a half years. And Americans are out of patience. I understand. I read the polls or I'm not you know I'm I'm not oblivious but I also believe that this new strategy ought to be given a chance. The last part of it was just put into play about two weeks ago. And there are some areas of success. Anbar province I mentioned deals are being made in other areas as well. So it's tough and it's long and it's hard and it's difficult. And I could go on for the next hour just talking about the implications of failure including the fact that I was in the military the last time we lost a war. It took us a

long time to recover. I want to ask you about that in just a moment but also remind our audience Senator McCain that they can join us the exchange phone number 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. We're taking your calls. For Arizona Senator and Republican presidential candidate John McCain. We're talking about Iraq right now if you'd like to call in about that we'd love to hear from you. Also if you have questions about Senator McCain's campaign here in New Hampshire or in some of the changes he's putting in place I don't want to call you out. We'll see what he says. I didn't have the switch. 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 is our number again 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. And Senator McCain could I mention that thing sure. The good news is that I refer to the Vietnam War. The good news is that the support for the men and women in the military is still very solid and I'm very proud in this country. And that's the difference you would say from the Vietnam era. And I'm very proud of that.

Well can we talk about the Vietnam War a little bit again given your experience as a combat veteran a prisoner of war. It's been said Senator McCain that this colors your thinking on Iraq sometimes coloring you were painting you into a corner where you can't see out because you're so influenced by that experience. How does your experience in Vietnam color your thinking on Iraq. Well it colored my thinking on everything because I think if we ignore the lessons of history we're doomed to repeat them. But look it colored my thinking when I thought we ought to go into Bosnia and stop genocide there. It colored my thinking when I thought we ought to go into Kosovo and stop the Serbs from slaughtering Muslims. It colors my opinion now when I say this this genocide that's taking place in Darfur has to stop. Are we going to say never again again as we did with Rwanda. So that makes me sound like a person who just wants to go in militarily. It's not I suppose the Marines in Beirut. Not because I didn't think that the situation was bad but I saw a way that we were going to effectively end

the conflict by sending a few hundred Marines in. So but I study my overall history all the time and I talk to smart people all the time. The Vietnam War obviously was a lesson that we shouldn't repeat. But Darfur is not lessened. Rwanda was a lesson. I mean I'm not there's no way that you could construe my political positioning. Excuse me my positioning on national security issues is directly driven by the Vietnam War it is a sum total of my many years of experience and involvement. I've been on the Armed Services Committee for 20 years so I've been involved in these issues. That's why frankly I'm the most qualified person to be president of United States because the transcendent issue now of our time is out of radical Islamic extremism. So what is the lesson of Vietnam that applies to Iraq. I think that one very obvious one is that you've got to have a government that people trust. They are one of the biggest problems in Vietnam war was the government in

Saigon was not an effective government nor did it have the trust and confidence of the people. I think another one is that and it doesn't apply to Iraq. If you're going to go in then go ahead and go in. But to be constrained the way Lyndon Johnson was early on because of his legitimate or illegitimate fear of Chinese and Russian intervention and have an escalation where targets are picked in the basement of the White House. I mean it was just a foolish in the political management of the war. And you see that going on now with what Congress is trying to do now. Look Congress is reacting to their frustration over the way this war has been conducted and the lack of success. I mean that's basically and they're reflecting the American people. I mean that's a simplification but that's basically what we're seeing here. And what I'm advocating is can we give this new strategy a chance to see whether it succeeds or not. You know the irony of all this Laura and I'm not seeking any sympathy anywhere at any

time. But I was the greatest critic of this the way the war was conducted by Rumsfeld. I said I had no confidence in him I would rail and give speeches and predicting that we would end up as we are now. But as Jack Kennedy said life isn't fair. So I do think this new strategy and new leadership has a chance to succeed. And the consequences of failure are enormous. I have a very very basic question for you Senator McCain about Iraq. I'm sure you've been asked it before if you had won that 2000 presidential election instead of George Bush would you have even started this war. I think that given the information and the intelligence at the time would I have been more inclusive or made more effort to get international involvement et cetera et cetera I mean would I pursue that methodology but with the information that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction with the with the knowledge that he'd used it before and was hell bent on acquiring it

again I think I would have made the same decision. But the key to this Larry is and I get to ask the question all the time is if I had been president I guarantee we would have had enough troops in there and we would have employed the right strategy. You and I would be celebrating democracy in Iraq although a fledgling one and a flawed one as opposed to the debacle we're in today because I would not have allowed the mismanagement of this war which took place which became obvious to me when I first went over there. We didn't have enough troops on the ground we allowed the looting we did. The list goes on. Any of our listeners who want to read a detailed version of this and we're in for a very depressing day. I recommend fiasco by Tom Ricks or COBRA two or several other books that have been written that well chronicled this mismanagement of this conflict. So suppose I'm sitting here and things would have turned out all right. You just said Aren't you glad that you supported going into Iraq. It's the failure of the conduct of the war. I think that Americans are most frustrated about. And

so am I. Let's go to the phones. Senator I have a lot more to ask but I want to include our audience again the exchange number 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 to rajo you're up first Roger from Stratford. Go ahead and thanks for calling in. Hi good morning. Good morning Senator McCain. Roger I was a supporter of yours in 2000. I'm an independent and hopefully I can be a supporter of yours going forward. The question I have is it seems to me that there is a center part of this argument that seems to get lost all off media which seemed to pander for whatever reason to the far left to the far right when it comes to Iraq. And in my mind it was a we went in for the wrong reasons but we're there. What's your question Roger. The question is is how Senator McCain do you think that we could encourage the debate in the country to come more of a centrist

position as opposed to the way to go either. Hurry up get out or get out we're we're we're in real trouble. Great. You know like should we get more involved I mean something that is a little bit less political and more seriously looking at the issues and all of our options. Roger it's a great question. Thanks a lot. Go ahead Senator McCain. Well already Roger the issue has been affected by the 2008 elections when you look at the presidential debates it's obvious that that is the issue unfortunately but it's the nature of democracies has become very politicized. Look I mentioned earlier I don't like the level of discourse in this country whether it be immigration reform whether it be Iraq whether it be a broad variety of issues. And I don't know what I can do about it so I shouldn't complain about it but I'd like to see us be more respectful and in specific answer your question. There have been proposals made that I think we ought to seriously consider making the nations in the region far

more involved than they are today. It's in the Saudis interests not to see Sunnis exterminated it's in Iran's interests not to see total chaos in the region. It's in Egypt's interest it's in Dore Jordan's and Jordan now has 750000 Iraq refugees and crammed into that tiny country and there will be more. It's literally in everybody's interest not ours. We're not appealing to our interests but their interest to have some kind of a regional resolution to this issue and for them be more heavily engaged I would say that's a failure from the beginning and that I think could give us perhaps some way we could at least come closer together rather than the polarization which you so accurately described Roger. Roger thanks for the call. And again 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 1 800 8 9 2 HPR. We have an e-mail question. Also on Iraq. This is from Mary in Manchester. She says Senator McCain as the mother of an Army reservist and in light of the latest reports about the reemerging strength

of al Qaeda. Could you assess the readiness of the U.S. military to fight the war on terror both at home and on multiple fronts abroad. I believe that the Guard and Reserve and our military is overstretched in a way it's almost unprecedented in American history. Another mistake made by Rumsfeld we should have known long ago that we needed a much bigger Army and Marine Corps and one that is more geared to fighting the war on terrorism. Talk about intelligence I'm talking about civil affairs. I'm talking about a lot of those kinds of areas that there are tools in fighting the war in any war on and on terrorism and insurgency. So I I think that that the military is very very heavily stressed and particularly our Guard and Reserve but also our active duty forces. And we've got to provide some relief for them and I think that's through as rapidly as possibly

expanding our Army and Marine Corps. But it's it's some of these kids now Mary and I don't mean to use some of our brave Americans are now on their fourth such fourth trip to Iraq Afghanistan. That's that's a lot to ask of a small percentage of our population. Next time you see one of our military people particularly our New Hampshire guard go over and say thanks for serving. This relates also to what you just said Senator McCain this is an email from Dianne in Intervale She says the military has now increased tours of active duty Army troops in Iraq to 15 months up from 12 month rotations. Army Chief of Staff George Casey said he quote can't guarantee it won't go beyond 15 months. What's your opinion. Dianne wants to know of extending military tours beyond 15 months. I know this has been an issue. I'd hate to do it. I would hate to do it. I think it would. Obviously we have to have our national security requirements first. But I my hope is that we see enough of progress

that that would not be necessary. One thing from a mechanical standpoint I hope that they would be told before they went over rather than when they're there and they're looking forward to the target date of a year and few months before even a few weeks before saying I'm sorry guys and women you are extended by another X number of months that's bad for morale relating to the e-mail I read earlier from Mary from Manchester talking about fighting both in Iraq and terrorism abroad. How much of a link do you make Senator McCain between Iraq and the terrorist attacks of September 11. I think that al Qaeda was behind the attacks of September 11th. I think al Qaeda is now whether they were or not at the outset of the conflict are very very influential in Iraq and in the region. I think that we are seeing this phenomenon of homegrown terrorists whether they be in London or whether they be in the

United States of America which is a whole dimension new dimension and a little bit off the subject. But I think that al Qaeda is growing stronger in Iraq as we fail as we experienced failures. But I think for the first time we're starting to make inroads because a lot of the people are turning against Finally Al Qaeda in Iraq as well. So I just think we are in a century long struggle. Al Qaeda is the manifestation of radical Islamic extremism. And that struggle is going to be won which is military diplomatic intelligence. But most of all a war of information and ideals which frankly we are not doing nearly what we should do. But the Bush administration has made that link and has been criticized for making that link justifying the Iraq war linking it sort of obviously or or indirectly to 9/11 and they've been criticized by both Republicans and Democrats who say look you really can't make that link.

Well it's not al Qaeda 9/11 whether we were or not at the time Iraq was or not and I don't believe that they had significant influence in Iraq at that time. But they do now they do now. I mean and they they claim credit. Look they're on the Internet there. They put out their videos. They talk about how they went in Iraq and establish a caliphate and then they move into the region and then come to the United States. I mean they're saying and I'm not saying it would come in any of our listeners who would like to see that I can provide them with the way to do that. So there's no doubt of the exploitation of the situation by al Qaeda. And as General Petraeus says Iraq has now as General Petraeus has comment that Iraq has become the central battleground in the war on terror. And that's because of our failure from the beginning and al Qaeda's ability to exploit the chaotic situation. And by the way a lot of this most of the suicide bombers that you hear and see about

they're not Iraqis they're coming in from other parts of the Middle East. I mean that's an example that the influence on this war extends far beyond the borders of Iraq right now. The Iranians are. We know that that's going to. We've got more questions. All right and we'll take more questions after a short break again the exchange number 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 We're also going to move on to some other issues including a recent shakeup in Senator McCain's presidential campaign. More of that after a break. Stay with us. This is the exchange on HPR. Support for a new Hampshire Public Radio comes from our members and from Little River oriental rugs handmade rugs from around the world repair and washing also available at 10 North Main Street downtown Concord on line at NH Rogerson dot com and from

Tracy banks in Concord presenting the 60th anniversary edition 9 3 and 9 5 models for 2007. 1 800 new Saab are online at Tracy banks Saba and dot com Saab born from jets. More with Arizona Senator and Republican presidential candidate John McCain on the exchange on New Hampshire Public Radio. HANNITY And on the Diane Rehm Show the Friday news roundup with a progress report on Iraq and debate in Congress on early troop withdrawal. Graham your weather this afternoon mix of sunshine and clouds chance of showers and thunderstorms some of them may be severe. Highs today lower 70s North lower 80s in the south. This is an age beyond. This is the exchange I'm Laura Conaway Monday in exchange. New Mexico governor and Democratic presidential candidate Bill Richardson joins us. John Greenberg is your guest host Bill Richardson we'll talk about his campaign for the White House. Right now we're talking with Republican U.S. Senator John McCain about his campaign for the Oval Office. And taking your calls again the exchange

number 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 1 800 8 9 to HPR. Senator McCain lots of calls have been waiting patiently. Let's go to Chester next where Tom is on the air. Welcome Tom go ahead. Thank you. I can speak with you Senator McCain. Thanks Tom. I have a question on immigration sir. I'll try to be brief. I shoot the concern I believe with others that the immigration bill was just that was debated sort of degraded American culture and the privileges of U.S. citizenship because it seems to expedite the status of undocumented immigrants many of whom didn't speak English who are here in violation of our laws. And secondly I was concerned about and I don't know all the ins and outs as I'm sure that you do about the consideration behind the bill but that the building emphasized more security now. I know that you're a historian I know that other civilizations have fallen because of for instance the Roman Roman civilization. Fell because of lack of

assimilation of people from the Satanic regions are concerned about their frustration with the immigration bill it's a great issue. Tom thank you for calling. Thank you. Tom I could have gone all day without your call. I know this is this is one of the most emotional issue that I have encountered in my years in politics really as you've been in politics a long time. Well as you know when we're considering the bill people basically shut down the switchboard in the United States Senate. I mean it is a rouse to a degree of passion which is in my mind it's certainly a domestic issue unprecedented. Americans are frustrated Americans angry. They see we have broken borders. What are the sources of frustration. In 1976 we passed to 86. We passed a law that said we would give amnesty or citizenship to people and we'd secure the border. We gave the citizenship. We didn't secure the borders. We have 12 million people. This is under Ronald Reagan. Tom it's a national security issue first and foremost in my mind you've got 12 million people washing around America. We don't

know who they are what they're doing. We found out that three of those people who crossed our border illegally want to go to Fort Dix and kill Americans. So it's first and foremost a national security issue. And this proposal we had is we'd spend the first 18 months securing the border but we do need in my view a temporary worker program and we need to address the issue of the 12 million people who are here illegally. I think we've got to bring them out of the shadows. I think we have to identify those two million people that Chertoff says have committed serious crimes. That's the Homeland Security head of Homeland Security says to me and those people have committed quote serious crimes and they're still living in the shadows. This was an attempt to not try to round up 12 million people and send them back wherever they came from but to try to bring them out of the shadows to secure our borders doing whatever is necessary to have a temporary worker program that would work. Tom I I'm sad in a way that we were unable

to do anything because everybody knows the problem need to be addressed. So as a nation I would hope that I would hope that we could come together and on a common position which would satisfy your concern about our border security and most Americans about a requirement that everyone who has any chance for to remain has to learn English and has to do the same naturalization things whether they get in line for citizenship or not. And also take into account the impracticability of rounding up 12 million people and deporting them. So this was an attempt to try to to just take care of those priorities that I mentioned. It failed the American people overwhelmingly opposed it. Why do you suppose that is. I mean you and Democrats and the president I mean you worked long and hard on this and trying to convince people it wasn't amnesty but they were unconvinced and the effort failed.

I think Tom just articulated the problems one. What about our borders. Why are our borders not secure. Every nation has required to secure our borders. What what why how. What is the effect as he said on our culture of a group of people who don't speak our language or have our culture. I'm not as concerned about that as you are. TOM The Irish Times and the Poles and the Jews and I and my my State's culture has been enriched by our Hispanic influence but we've also got people dying in the desert. We've got terrible abuses in our border and secure over 50 percent of those who cross the border illegally cross the Arizona Mexico border. So I think that there was such concern and we didn't do a good enough job I think in articulating our approach to the issue and how we thought it should be solved. But Tom I think at the end of the day we have to realize we've now got de facto amnesty because these people are still in our country and we don't know who they are and what they're doing. I hope that finally

and finally because we could spend I'm already spent too much time on it. Maybe we could sit down hopefully and say OK let's start securing the borders immediately. Let's let's start doing that and convince people that we're on that path and then maybe look at a temporary agricultural worker program instead of trying to do it all in one giant bill a piece by piece maybe step by step so that people will have some confidence that we will do it in the right way. Thanks for your call Tom. Yeah Tom glad you raised it it's a huge issue obviously and again the exchange number 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 Republican presidential candidate U.S. Senator John McCain is with us today. Senator McCain I have to ask you this this week your campaign went through a shake up key staff leaving you began the race as the presumptive frontrunner. What happened. I'm leaving I'm leaving this program right now. But we've had a difficult period and there's no doubt about it. And we've made mistakes and those responsibilities are mine. Some of my

dearest friends well we didn't we spent too much money we didn't do a lot of things we should have have done and those are my responsibilities. And I feel I'm very sad at the departure of a couple of my very dearest friends. It's very tough when you have a situation like that. But we had to obviously change course try to improve the situation both financially and in other ways slimmed down our our our staff and and move forward and do the kinds of campaigning that won me the primary in 2000. I never thought I would re raise more money than than some of my opponents. But we didn't use the money. In a in a most effective manner that we had and some would give me an example well example I guess the best example is that we were spending as much money as we were raising in the object of the game is you've got to put money aside so you can buy television and radio and do the things that are necessary when people really

begin focusing on the campaign. I mean people really aren't going to focus even here in New Hampshire till this fall. I mean that's generally the case and understandably lately they like to lead normal lives and are not political junkies like you and me so. And so we just did not do the right things that you need to do to run a successful campaign particularly financially. I will point out with very strong political base here in New Hampshire with great support here in Iowa and South Carolina much better off than we were in 1999 when you and I first met. 1999 when you and I was first on your program I was at 3 percent and the poll had a 5 percent margin of error. I could have been at minus 10 you know. And you won by 19 percent in the primary in February which is a high bar. But look I'm confident we get out the boss we do the town hall meetings and and I'm confident we're going to be fine. But it's a difficult time right now. But there are ups and downs in campaigns. I remember when my beloved friend Bob Dole left some of his staff on the

tarmac and Ronald Reagan had to fire John Sears. I mean there's a there's always tough times I wish every campaign would just run smoothly. But let me say again the responsibility is mine. I'm the I'm the candidate. Will you be distracted by immigration and Iraq. You've been over to Baghdad a couple of times I mean probably spend the rest of this hour in the next hour giving you excuses but there's no excuse. I mean it. But again look I'm confident we have a very strong political base in the three early states. I am confident that we can do what I'm best at which is the town hall meeting. In all due respect without the prism of the media so I can deal directly with the people. And I look forward to it. In fact I'm doing a town hall meeting tomorrow. You talked about your effort in New Hampshire. How well that went catapulted you for a while. But it's different this time for a while. It's different this time. You don't need me to tell you that I mean focusing on the early states of Iowa New Hampshire and South Carolina

that might have been a strategy that was good a couple of years ago but now everybody is going early. How does that affect the way that you campaign Senator McCain I think there's two schools the front loaded two schools of thought. One is that the bigger states play now a bigger role. I don't agree. I think that the early states then are more important because whoever wins the early states then gets all the earned media. And I think it makes New Hampshire more important. And by the way I'm not pandering here but I've spent enough time in this state to know that New Hampshire is vital to this process. The people of New Hampshire pay attention. They understand their responsibilities. And and if we took a look I know how this sounds maybe to a cynic but I've been at enough time in this state. I've had you know that old joke of Mo Udall. What do you think about Mo Udall for president. I don't know I only met him twice. That that's funny because it's true. It's true. And so for us to disrupt this process by taking New Hampshire out of its

traditional role I think would would be a serious blow to the ability of the American people to select the best candidate. So finally let me just say I love that kind of campaigning. That's what I'm best at grassroots. And we're having fun. That's the fun part. When you can communicate with people and see maybe them smile make them laugh tell one of my old tired Mo Udall jokes. You know something like that. That that's the fun part. And I really look forward to it. And so I feel that we're we've got a very competitive situation here. And I think we're going to do OK. One more question for you Senator McCain then we will go back to our callers. You did great in New Hampshire last time with that strategy. Then you went on to South Carolina where you ran into problems with conservatives. The moderate Republicans the independents in New Hampshire loved you but the conservatives in South Carolina were nervous and as I understand it conservatives are still nervous about John McCain Well I think they

may be. And I think independents Roger is an example. He said I voted for you last time and I hope I hope you know I have to convince him again and that's appropriate It's been eight years. But I think again when people examine my record they will see a strong physical national security and social conservative and I am a conservative but I also believe that you need to be guided by a framework and a fundamental basic philosophy. But at the same time you've got to adjust to the various I mean example. I favor stem stem cell research. That's a tough decision for those of us that are pro-life. It's a tough decision and I understand that some people in the pro-life community oppose that. But I came to the conclusion after study in prayer and thought that I think that we ought to have money spent on stem cell research. Now that's a departure maybe from what is the quote conventional conservative position. But let me also give you some straight talk. I understand that immigration

reform hurt me in my position my effort to do it. I understand that. I understand my position on the war is hurting me with people like Roger just can but I believe at the end of the day the reason why people would support me or seriously consider supporting me because they know I'm doing what I believe is right not what I believe is most effective for polling reasons anyway. So and I'm happy to and I enjoy campaigning. I really do. How you said it's been eight years Senator McCain since the last campaign and we've been talking again about your strategy last ounce What how have you changed. The thing that's really changed Laura is that we didn't have 9/11. We now have the threat of radical Islamic extremism that has changed everything in the 2000 campaign. We talked about taxes we talked about health care we talked about a whole different world and cetera. Now the transcendent issue of our time and it's going to be with us for the rest of this century is this radical Islamic extremism.

And my argument is and I am by far the best prepared I know he said it was he can ask any more questions in the campaign but I do want to ask one more question and we had the caller Roger who said I supported you last time I hope to do it again. There have been many key people here in New Hampshire. You know the names names everybody recognizes who we're big McCain guys or gals last time with Romney this time with Giuliani this time again. I don't suppose you don't know that. I don't know that many people but my dear friend Warren Rudman this is one of my pillars. Steve do you use. Been wonderful in this campaign with Peter Spaulding. We have basically the same team frankly that we had last time. So I'm not exactly sure who you're referring to who have gone to another camp. I'm sure that others have. But I just the key people that were in our campaign last time Nancy Merrell many others Paul Shivaya. They're all with us now.

Again the exchange number is 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 1 800 8 9 2 and HPR. Senator McCain there was a New York Times article I think it was yesterday about this. I'm asking you this because you've been a campaign finance expert about a phone call that you made from the Republican cloak room a call from the cloak room to a fundraiser. Apparently this is against campaign law you are supposed to call campaign contributors from government property. No the law says you can't solicit money. There was many people on the call I was on the floor obviously because I'm the ranking member on the Republican side on the Armed Services bill. And so I went to the phone and called them and said look you know here's what's going on on the floor and we're making some changes. I didn't mention anything to do with money. I didn't mention anything to do with fund raising. And the phone was paid for by my wife. I'm glad she pays for some things and and the fact is that I

mean. It it in no way in no way was in any violation. And so I mean it's just a fact. So I just called people who are. They were on a call and I talked to some of my supporters for a few minutes but I had no requests for money or anything else that would have anything to do with violation of any rule or law. Let's go back to the trial. Speaking of 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 is the number two and over where Donald is on the line. Welcome Donna. Go ahead Senator. I had the pleasure of meeting that eight years ago and voted for you and we'll see you again. But my point is that the person who does not pay is between extremes in quality. You work across party lines. You go to games with

Democrats and that's why I will vote for you again. Thanks for the call. Thank you. And could I just very briefly Laura I have a history of reaching across the aisle and working with Democrats whether it be a conservative Democrat like Joe Lieberman or whether it be Russ Feingold or whether it be Carl Levin who I'm working with now on the Armed Services defense bill. That's my. Or Senator Kennedy immigration bill. I have reached across the aisle. I will continue to do so. That's what the American people want us to do. The latest Gallup poll a couple of weeks ago the approval rating of Congress was an all time low. All the all time low ever since Gallup has been taking polling numbers. People want us to work together for them and that's what I intend to do as president and I can do it because I've worked with all of these men and women for the last 20 years. Does that when you a primary though in primaries your voters on both sides tend to be more ideological and maybe don't want you to you know sit down and sing Kumbaya with the other side.

Well I hope that they will understand that I can preserve and preserve my conservative principles but at the same time if you want results I mean and there are issues that should not be partisan. Social Security is going broke. We need to fix it. Medicare's going broke. We need to fix it. I mean it's wasteful spending must be eliminated. What in the world is partisan about this pork barrel spending that has led to such corruption that members of Congress are going to jail. I have fought this earmark pork barrel spending for the last 20 years. And so I think that the Americans want us to work together even if they are very ideological driven. But they want us to maintain our principles. You know you mentioned campaign finance a huge issue for you and your work with Democrat Russ Feingold on that. How do you feel Senator McCain after the recent Supreme Court ruling that kind of whacked a chunk of McCain-Feingold law out the part regarding advertising right before an election.

We knew that it was going to. That was probably the most vulnerable part. And that's frankly why the opponents of campaign finance reform went after it. Of course I was disappointed particularly because the Supreme Court had already once ruled that it was all constitutional but it still has put a great break on the on the soft money. It has done I think better things because we don't see as much of the corrupting influence of money in Washington. It's not a panacea but I think the bill has been working. And I think you've seen a change from before it was passed where the trial lawyer or corporate head or union leader would be able to be called by a powerful member of Congress and say I need a seven figure check from you and by the way your bill is up before me my committee next week. And I believe that this quote soft money and drive for money is what caused us to see the Duke Cunningham and Bob Ney and Abramoff which we investigated. This was money Washington around Washington which led to corruption and I don't think that's very easy to argue against that statement of fact. Oh

by the way the investigations are going on. There will be other people indicted. Although you're talking about Congress and the presidential race you know the headlines are he raises this much she raises this much you know the money primary we talk about now so has McCain Feingold made a difference there. We had no impact nor intend to impact the presidential campaign except we raised I think the contribution limit. Let's go back to the phones to let's see Scott in Spufford. Go ahead Scott you're on the exchange and welcome. Thanks for waiting Scott. Yes good morning Senator. How are you Scott. Good. How are you. All right. I want to publicly thank you and all are veterans and active military for their service. Thank you Scott. I'm going to try and be brief. Back to the Middle East. I see I have a specific question and that is regarding the Israeli Palestinian and or Israeli Arab situation I've been looking at this for I'm only 40 so.

But since you know the history I look at since 49 we've been pumping up Israel and and also the leadership in the Arab countries. So what I see is a huge inequality between your rank and file or your citizenry your average Arab and the wealthy leadership. Now I want for my leadership in Washington to come up with a comprehensive economic plan to not only help the Palestinian economy and give people hope and like what our country is based on is hoping and opportunity. OK so let's address that I'm going to cut you off because we're getting close to the end but I appreciate the question. I think I get the nub of it. You're right Scott and things have gotten worse and things have gotten worse in the region because of our failure in Iraq I have no doubt about the interconnectivity of the problems in Syria. Re-asserting are continuing to assert their efforts to dominate in the region of the Iranians. The greater

threat the emergence of Hamas in Gaza the increase even as far away as Afghanistan in some of the efforts to reconstitute the Taliban and all of it is connected to this rise of radical Islamic fundamentalism. But I also would agree with you that the pallet the Israeli-Palestinian issue is a central issue which if we're ever going to see a peaceful Middle East we've got to address that issue and bring about a peaceful resolution if I were president I would take the smartest guy I know. Maybe Tony Blair maybe you know maybe General Zinni maybe I don't know exactly who would be but a person who's widely respected in the region I'd say go over there and negotiate and don't come back until we have the beginnings of a peace process. It's been far more complicated with Hamas now in control in Gaza and Fatah being in control in the West Bank. But I don't think there isn't a connectivity between our failure in

Iraq and these other facts on the ground in the region. Bill Russell the famous philosopher and center for the Boston Celtics once said when things go bad things go bad. I have one last question for you Senator McCain just to wrap up for now I'm going to have you back we'll talk more about domestic policy. I know we focused a lot on foreign policy today. What's it been like for you given your own White House ambitions to have to watch from Capitol Hill. The Bush administration for the past eight years given that you wanted to be sitting in that seat yourself. My greatest disappointment was the mishandling of the of the war in Iraq and early on I gave speeches and statements and to what was going on and this is the failure to pursue Rumsfeld and others to pursue what could have been a very effective policy after our initial military victory which has caused us to experience the national security challenges which by a good part of our program

today was about and caused by our failures in Iraq. That's probably what I would have done. Dramatically different. We've got to if I were president United States I would close Guantanamo Bay. I would declare we will never torture another person. And I would declare my absolute dedication to an international agreement addressing climate change that's often seen as a Democratic issue climate change. You know Joe Lieberman and I proposed legislation on a cap and trade of emissions five years ago and we've been working on it ever since. I don't go to the concerts but we've been working on politics right here in New Hampshire sponsoring some of this kind of politics. Where are you going here in New Hampshire next. Just out tonight. I'm going to some people's homes I'm going to give a speech to the Concord chamber on arrival as a result of my trip to Iraq and talk more about the Middle East and a little bit like we were talking today about the dimensions of the challenges we face and

do a town hall meeting tomorrow and then we're going to go out of town back home for a while and then come back how many tunnels did you do last time. Was it more than 100. Yeah I think it was more than a hundred. Can you do that now. Senator McCain called in especially given the pressures of you know Californians on February 5th Florida is who needs to because you know starting in September will be heavy and I'm sure lots of I love him. They invigorate me. They invigorate me. And again the people in this state are sophisticated. I don't know I only met him twice before we call him to see him touch them smell him Terry. So you probably heard that as well Bob Dole story. I know that I hear the background music one time he was in someone's living room when a woman came up said I'm very angry because you're not in our neighborhood and make a long story short he found out she lived two blocks away. Thanks for having me. Thank you. Come back we'll focus more on domestic policy taxes Social Security health care health care.

So the town hall meeting tomorrow is second first or second question will be about health care. All right Senator thank you for coming in. Thanks Lou. Arizona Senator and Republican candidate for president John McCain. The exchange is a production of New Hampshire Public Radio. The producers Ty Fraley The engineer Dan COLGAN are in terms of Sean Frederick and Rebecca Herscher a volunteer is Priscilla Malcolm. Our theme music was composed by Bob Lord the exchanges executive producer is Keith shields and I'm Laura