Soul!; 53; Conversation Between Giovanni and Baldwin. Part 1

herb herb this series is made possible in part by a grant from a i m s interdisciplinary metropolitan systems incorporated nice boots we can good evening i'm alice chafes at that i welcome

you to another solo episode one of the miracles of this universe that we deal with is a way you can use something as cold and gray and it's impersonal as an electron these electrons that fill your television screen to bring you an experience as warm and it's rich and as human as approach we're about to see and we hear it so like stringer proud that we have been able to put together two proteins conversations between two brilliant and eloquent members of the black family nikki giovanni and james ball we had to travel to london in order to take these programs and we've been added to them to fit within our time shared a one off tonight we will be seeing the first hour of this conversation and next week we will share the second part is the baldwin who is now living abroad is the author of going to meet the man tell me how long trains been gone the fire next time another country nobody knows my name

giovanni's room notes of a native son go tell it on the mountain and a rock on race with margaret mead james rawley is also the author of the plays booths mr charlie and the amen corner nikki is most innocuous know is an old friend of so and one of quite a few people who has always made her time energy and thinking available to us she is the author of black feeling blacktop black judgment re creation gemini and spin assault rap song she also edited an anthology of black female voices titled night come softly so here now i'm nikki giovanni and james baldwin in conversation i'm really curious why did you move to a new wildly by bb

what you haven't said the eight point eight because it was couldn't find in my surroundings and my country at a certain time in a certain corroboration but i need it for example pushed back as far as i knew it i was very young but really this was the quarterback i have similar laws mostly who was a split in the universe and have worked and when i'm eighty seven and worked and stayed and he's based in your premium going out those were just

on one and the speech is right i know lawyers and radio and mortars landing and go and in a way he was an espn that martin luther king or didn't spend long time employee based in the south of france but there's a way that would lead in that you think that the recently said go where i wouldn't carry myself with me although so if you knew if i pretended i mean that responsibility so i'm in a way disturbing an attack on a vacant lot in the world wouldn't be condemned to live in the world and condemned it and then and then ascends it in and listen to young and also the renewal you i would rather him know around who the unexpected

thing you want to do everything is as it is to do that with a valuable to be forced to one place to another and you have some situations all the time and accept that this is going to be it is you're not going to use it in you essentially don't you know like you're black you know a great deal about you're closer to do about his trio which of these words receptions and climbs mr mcgregor come up with a disability insurance you're going to get so definitive account of writing and given a status say without everybody's protests now that i think in nineteen forty eight now six chief editors graham said my god someone's really talked how you standing relationship say to the

listener really think about this at younger writers of the time and one and within that time to expire without me in your opinion i mean moving in he actually moving out of that they see and i think you'd have to say you know it is understood but you know you have no idea and i noticed you oh i mean you know you do a thousand new generation of it and say you know i do like an espresso you and when i write a sip and ricardo salinas moved to more strange way and maybe it's possible that as a day for example honestly it would be very different

i think that without quite realizing it in the middle of a line of soccer's of this very moment i know my generation aligned with your generation you know and the terrible situation which always find ourselves it is the one thing has changed and that has added to the black people had killed themselves not in that chain that a great deal of confusion incoherence that regard a very long time you know but that was inevitable that we had to come to rene enriquez what is now i was trying to myself little crystal to interstate for myself a theology and the effects of theology which i don't realize i carry on myself you know about the world it was my present only a wider world as you is loaded you long enough and effective enough you really do it yourself and you become a collaborator

because of your own murderer is largely the same things they do no using it's in beijing's lonely life and you think it's important to be about they usually blackened you think imogene to be black known robberies around you of any of the sense of life you know was coverage which are around you aren't james alive and artist and it is so deplorable that fight new death we don't need war none no it's a rigid and dance you know hugh hardie move the tiny fourteen you know you always scrubs and shining know a party of god knows what legal why hasn't been enough but after you've been involved in to begin to bring out all of that and it can use so you know it is art to anybody that israel if you're born blackwell at it hard to believe and also so who stands at the side

your generation no bluetooth light is those two one example another you know because in fact these categories are to produce and certain people who has got it was a commercial candidate you know there's a reason that you knew i was eight my son is out of your body and that only his late the masses so susan collins colo it was i love you could be in the big house and it wasn't a good condition the nation of islam he was a slave he was a slave he was later it goes even though you know you have might be

master song massacre make money off of his song no decisions threatened if a slave woman who becomes a free man begins they are using it it was nothing as they've ever been by law i said originally motion induced dream and watch every man about enslavement you know i was a christian you know and these are hardly recognizes that the sandwich and almost killed you on the american past and its neighbors and cotton of a song or oil or based on peanuts are based on profits this is our church it's when you begin to realize all of that there was no easy but you begin to break out of the country june is

oh really and our state in that attitude and moaning know i know something which we know and what the ribbons all about is huge amount to excavate some was going very well with you know i did a little kid can play ms donna cary which will have a hand on the line i was a little kid was a few generations of the sega why people are not you know his idea was and you have the edge over the building themselves as white levy environmental looted and mowing into believing what they believed was overcome addictions yet but in fact watch many work for you not to watch you know you watch it what you do it is about you

is easy knows you are what you are and you have to leave because your life is in his hands the washington post today some of that in that mode you know you know that i'm an adult i mean it's so right and i give up in the sixties which is like really active in the us but we always assume that we knew white people in a way that we really sort of like understood that and i found out that if you're not asking you so anybody absent and are you know you know what i mean that the snake is to walk just making you know just like but you don't know it because it's too late to wedge between there's too much emotion it was like the california and he's gonna let me do something that we know yeah i would say i would have thought that says that he knows me better because his game as ryan lanza and that's what i sort of always disagree with your generation and so was his game his running he obviously knows me because he's eased

out and as an aha any of the close of this is since his game hunting he has got no i know you run against it and got to know you i want to know one reason is that the human service trouble now below the game germany and only yesterday and all of the song through the marathon team in arizona discovered that people like that you now if you're that guy didn't like snoop loves soccer like when one is not likeable a master slave who exactly exactly that view no no no no no get precise categories will carry loaded statement saying that the that that is where the truth is when i'm lucky

so the question and for me the question has always been around us and forge like you are the question's been marx you know i never wanted to be the most loyal person well i would like and i was so much so you know an eleven and again those are so literal so you know you know what very quickly but really speaking to the whole of myself of my imagination and the explosives begonias myself you know

in my own case life fell and sophia absolutely unraveled very strongly to me it's resembling i was when you're a marginal is as a highways and marketing and literature lovers but then i was not exactly is that his wichita is having the chemicals that i liked and a lot of impact i knew it mr hussein was is the world but you like you were going to work as you and then literally you know because again we're that was something that lost the ability to love their

own tune which is a thing to you he was on a lot of moral so much as a matter of being force among cases suggests to keep suggesting that though it was indeed no matter how it out without read more of his new cd how about how about some sense of oneself this and another that acidity and the guy who then becomes a likeable you know i mean you know i've also said this that the dangers out is up to me to tell you about iran ms coppola that was canceled and i don't want to do the movie lucy and he will come

after me you know so that when the holocaust comes and will calm know eventually eventual a simple like mike has lived a life that simple and similarly the event that i worked as i should do it when i needed you know to me and if people listen and i know today was i think the most important i think that i did because i think the most important thing for any of us is when when what comes or when that we know look i'm kind of me we're just going to say here we can get eyes bailout by the ninety five and you'd be indecent going to say yes and most of the rust on what was known for and you know that in my mind's eye and there's always like to kill you grow your help

and new avenues is about the children about the children to give the children something which away without talking to us that we had and then translate it you're getting lucrative world than one in which i grew up and you want on him at all over which iran will be remotely and yet he comes out of it and that as much revenue i'll be able to get it he said they respect with another chapter says do it will do to an animated literally hundreds of and i think that canada has been lacking but i think one of the nicest things that we created on this is a generation and was enough because monday those people away before but as the factory to say i don't like white people to avoid discrimination it was the beginning of what will be able to write the check it was about the music

the lyrical show began about palin convention as the most hated tennis covered the scene of those installations and like you know like going to jail and they're less intense phase astonished lot people are going to jail oh i'm going to go on and you you lived his whole life and what she watches that he knows it really really good you know really a motel in and it becomes into syria pretty allow that to enter into his golf he's a very interesting maybe it may even if he may explode and a lot will happen it allows as i mentioned some of the experience center in to him and is the pitch meeting his experience and this is it this is the crisis of age with a lot of amenities a white is a state of mind a k in it

on a certain level absolutely about half of americans have defined as the sons and daughters of slaves and slave owners that is another listener grow because i don't care about what their brothers and sisters and things like that that aren't you mentioned that as we knew we knew as possible reason to jewish now the situation is ideal my black community here duff lives in them out and said that to your son vilified as being like the statement happened same thing as leslie yeah begin to try to dealing with a world without a lot of things break down and we found that frequently a white face goes with a white mind occasionally a black face goes with a white man very seldom white face would have a black mind that we found a frequent situation as a white faced as a white man but you know it would make its unfortunate

cops got the cubs and why they may be you may be a very nice man and a time to go out in on a very long and on average in that way that's only right that all along was that no one was trapped look you know a new episode of the campaign going on to humanize the young policeman and they have postponed of billboards upstate and they have a picture this big heart beating over this little blonde girl and the sunsets and some people call him p the renowned what the idea what activision i'm not about who were a show this big cop and his fourteen year old kid or thirty bullets ending and saying some difficulty in peacemaker do you think is it that this week

and yet that famously the beginning they said to bobby came into this about a person in a black man who had as well the job obviously i'm very upset about civilization it's produced that photograph that like standing on that black woman's let me in as a larger vision the situation in new orleans you wrote that

moral lesson you know i think that a lot of violence in a lot of practical oh no the choices i had to make to be able to shave in the morning last up in the face moment now i'm not so moral legacy and say that is some i had a grumbling among those head pray for him you know and i think that you know that you can know their inner life and soul of j edgar hoover moral i don't care what happens to work and always tried at all

that due to what happens to europe you know and if i a moral but i don't really think that the kids were due to bring up religion more of a thousand persons you get out of little morality is not to our colleague michel explains how the nation a powerful man in the donation in jail but that's not how you know i mean his game is unknown precisely precisely not win our game start running a natural at all that we have survived the robbers games through the world it really really act remember what we say against the surging robin limits of hang ups are you know we have come to some weird come to something you know in egypt is falling get further

into this well i mean there's no incentive to you and me you're living in your the beginning that upended and your what was it because you were being apprehended and put new window farm you know which would be useful for your kid and his kid you know and for the world i love life except the world's nations is that when he was elected i want to believe it it's tesla motors aggression and unabashedly that we get rid of our own definitions and begin the real world that way this case white and black cannot use what they had been given many rejected that rejected nobody wants it and the president had an older governor of california or spiro t agnew the good ones and then we you know it as all of us to outlying suffering a certain sense of like that everybody says you know and that's morality the

millions of a moral values were damaged i can do it the city's law and justice had a figure black people you know reliving you know if you know this divide because you say it the systematic even a church for a long time that i have to oppose the baptist church the church is a very clear to it i can dig the theology but the music and the images of the church's that i went to they're looking at private it's on anniversaries of its first anniversary and i went to a mainly fine in charge is no end the lady was singing somebody was singing yes jesus loves and people started chanting you understand that people restrained and it hit me as i was sitting at my god as a so called black mountain i have nothing stronger to offer than jesus you baby

they do what we did when jesus would talk with no that's supposed to happen but we took in the tobacco then they'd love to do that but he's in montgomery alabama the electric grid isn't yet unknown out of some us and he was always reading cosmo's result of israel and he really believed that got of them seem to be some some medical security and safety in a dog which elections though is that sometimes when cars and being you know really obscene as he told a joke you can actually no do you do

it at home and you say to me baby so this was a girl but at the time i didn't know that i my mother by the capital kigali goes oh you know well you know this thing they didn't believe it and the people who died by for two thousand years and then when you track if you're using glasses it religion itself as a classic what is wrong with a man and a woman

having a baby like everybody else ms trude bennett is known as olive garden of all immaculately army also undergone that's a classic renounce and love the things with you that isn't has been acting in the snack cake and of argument for a favor of long time flint and to talk about our responsibility on it you know a lot of people don't remember thinking clear that that is what i mean but then the synagogue on the hope that us visit us at

we're here says if you're going to do no what he wanted was released that moment had to do with gloves and tumble play this week in a kid loves you in a certain way because he ej but late on a man or a woman is the much more cervical most money because we need each other and it is not like a blow this idea you know when you were twelve thirteen fourteen fifteen sixteen when everything is actually limiting things to know and as i say like it's a job his usual going to the moment because and then we'll come back to that image of the great the question is not that great question is you see the black mayors joshua blackmail is in microcosm situation for sure the price of being a

black man as the question sometimes you have to pay attention to which is your sense no black man has a big lead technician says back to soon roll the burdens of duties and the joys of being a man in the same way that my job was low bottoms up with the moment last year the soul a moment alison rosen and sexuality religion and sexuality uses possibility to love you know the sec so much the same thing it demands a job has gotten those possibilities hope of love it was also ran the idea is evidently is that he has he has absolutely no

for almost dance but no room in which to move the way to get one day to the next within a glove to you the same thing as taking you know and it's a journey which will do that to make with each other divided black man had only allowed women to talk about when i get about black men an effective so that are underwater sounding a defensive because i don't mean that you save yourselves israeli settler you know who doesn't

just that you lose that to be destroyed and everything else and yet have saving it i'd watch my father let my father hadn't do to raise nine children and on ism non citizens week when he was working on when i was a kid i know what the man was going through at all of the wind is always knew even know why he was impossible to live the land i had to go through yet is working day and he couldn't get a job at the kids to need you know you can say his nose as our kids can't i might live even say anything it is all like in silent except in the church you know i think it's going to have anything to fall you know kid know my ball snowmen and

ice and i quit and gives the kids values and can you see it you know the letter is a kid you know you got to raise a kid and your man was being so destroyed i'll bow a day by day a woman's watching it you're watching her watch it you know i love that you have to each other is baby destroyed are bowing day by day is not flawless art no fault but their goals because the prison in which you live aren't you might not qualify me when that and i understood when i began then call that what happened was not was like this was in love with his wife and our mother he loved her but he couldn't take it today the battle being too on that job at

those streets and on those subways and then having all those children and sentimental o oman for them throwing their fate hadn't had also if you're as afraid of the situation the condition which he represented he was at all for did you begin to see when you're going to go you know that your father for using your knowledge and where america thinks that you know you're probably about it and the new begins by your father knew that oh that's where it is as actor faraz watch as it all thought that the full of how people with our cause i had an imminent change all filed out to be a slave and that immigrant calculated that he is a you know is a us except in a long gravel and save the last thousand years and say will save all the same and the lead and i'll be losing

and a lot more family of a new facility and on the standing i was a little too well and i have a soon to be in the world but nobody really is related to georgia it's like a funny situation of being in league is likely report that navy unfortunately for somebody like me luckily enough to relate to it so that my relationship to that whole syndrome which remains true of twenty eight to this day is that i really don't understand that and understand how money in dc talk about like a black man that he can be nothing in the streets and so fearful in his home that he can he can be brutalized by some white person somewhere and

then come home and treat you know i mean as it is the same way that he is a treaty which is not true actually but you have got to let go she did but her mother indeed yes yes but that's how we got here you say is an enormous underestimate the price pedro five great deal of respect for those people vote for my pants for people that i don't know for the whole we have a metal shelf and the senate and isn't that it's a phenomenon to me how you could be mistreated and then come home and mistreat someone the same way and over is worth it as well maybe you say he mistreated your ass industry you know but in the month because he was doing he's not mistreating on monday and over there well mike and i came

along this happen in let's say in the mind of let's say your father who's just an example of the man my father knew early he is being mistreated and until the crack is mistreating him i would do with him he knows that he is not being treated with the respect to him as a person as a black man okay in order to like get back together the yukos into their house and it is that i do the last number in voisin is an enemy was because like a phenomenal to me because i don't like white people not afraid of black men right ok so what do you do it has been used to lose workers loaded and i was one of them at the protest that can make clear there was one black only thing the man cut i imagine comes home and he's in a situation which you cannot control he is a human being it's got to come out somewhere about a puerto rican several years ago for example not just doesn't

think it is a legit i don't see that then why haven't kept a moment you're the baby was screaming and those babies do i mean killing at the audience will really killing was that i understand like i know something about that and that is a law that is and that you cannot do they say they got to they got to be that most of mobile is a cause of combat and that way where would it come out or as opposed to something that's so wrong because he it may be wrong it is that you had that made you think you may be wrong cause huge role of original human beings when government to that image would gather learned about the

village and i'm huge law i've seen other community and even today nineteen seventy one even today there aren't divisions based on those same day job so that the black men say in order for me to remain locked in cases behind me you know i mean it will immediately i thought it means nothing to me that that's what he needs on every department behind him going to be a man you know and i never walked out so nikki if it at the risk of a very grave risk of going to see meaningful right no not now that i'm not learning that going what i'm doing is good analysts say so new to you about new to me was you know i'm a new sighting say then i'm guessing by suggesting a know it goes exactly along he would do it now i know

that a regular basil that the agency right now is not an option that something we're wrestling remains what is important about it is not the details about the another human need people given the so called leaders are doing that jackson was important as important when languages can ferment which is calm which can be used to pay was lively and will remain the rest will go and live and so you know and a level that's about sort of say it is at the same syndrome to say our fathers set up a fund menino in the fathers arrange insane scene joseph they said that was seven years ago st syndromes which witch is being set of his being perpetuated myth that once again the black man is becoming the figure to slide away from knowing that that once again the

black man as the trigger just the right here i can enter their and if you are if you visit with the state or you know you talk to people and you say that that same syndrome yellow guys in a steady red cross and that i wasn't that knowledgeable they're not getting any love they could give a damn about me your name and then that's that's unfortunate because i need love this was too low it was using is very very serious a lot of money on these tonight with only living in through it i think do you think do you say there you

go and i watch this july fourth good job this is you can not get a job when rowdy gaines be destroyed at the body begins to fail you hers

you know they're able to execute or to be able to do and there's not anything that you have done on monday as marble cherries and it's how in the world i can get a job and i can't even get my my my acts of a pawn shop and i can't even fish nugget money get on the somewhat how am i one of a body except in such an awful pain rage but nobody could bear it and applied offended i see it and i mean i do that because maybe i'm hopeful because estrogen life and i've talked about wasting what i'm describing is any longer true for your generation i mean that wasn't the same but i keep saying is that i see the

same symptoms and the same guys that i have to deal with now islam idea but where do legitimacy is also a new and you sing about that you think that you know what you're going through is one thing and i knew you first generation has less i mean no i don't mean and immunities act now to talk about it that much about what you mean is that some use it for a moment that is usually a metaphor with ecology pass one moment into another moment is about what happens to you to you was lovely is somewhere else so says the terrible twos been erected friday but they didn't know that and then you begin to see the movie industry there were looks opened wednesday on friday or is self

is called home without attorney you get through it when you get through it were not like a disagreement but i'm trying to help me get you to relate to is that an alley on black and because some of these measures that are better writer that i die witness a red eyes go you go with media and made under threat and arson you can speak to me bill because you don't have the money for crippling he doesn't encrypt the babies does lead someplace if you could follow me for two seconds wait wait they got asleep someplace the baby's gonna eat something for what she needs at that moment isn't it if the man function that iran which is not necessarily a provider for autism as everybody can understand why you can't buy something you don't have a job you don't have a job and i was going to fail you might not get a job because she got red lines and there's no job for what she needs

is amanda gun ban say they look good and in an enlightening me he used to function like that because they say oh we're going to create lack of typical i really do you have to understand my point is you know i'm not going to do about it if you're pregnant and actually given that government's but let me it's a male romance one view given the fact that the cemetery and that the centers of assimilation into ritual or first outside europe but it had to be a man that inside of you and this is less acceptable to any kind of judgment it's a fact

you to certain way become a certain kind of person is any described as being really real for you of the real or not and in this innovation a man who cannot support his wife and his child is not a man and this is also in though for example in welfare rules you know and the the black man has always been viewed as a slave and of course an accent way one way or another you know and you blame on human evolution like fighting his lawyers and it happens and if the baghdad is in but it's so low as alcohol can it was a bit of a loner especially if i love you have in that role and i can't come with nothing but i know it doesn't make any sense that scene we talk about and we talk about the children right when we talk about like the same unit that it out that how we gonna create the new

child in the same old syndrome don't i think it goes out yeah somebody has to say about it and it ambassador you know meanwhile yes not about so you can see i'm not afraid of times that happens that will was not enough to a doctor and went out with a group of weight only be noted has begun some has been talking about it is a beginning look i won't write it in private hands and i worked on a lot of it coming down that don't come because in twenty years on the use at twenty is still lives of racial and

that is an example of not to get hung up on any given detailed has a lot is they'll like a package that's going to be there forever and i do that i do not hear a little bit from day to day and today we know the tragedy of evil and the great tragedy is it is lloyd but usually do you and the va do me a man has built as he's built and is only do that that a man has only this true you know and it and whether your right look if you're losing out in my wife a moment i'm responsible for that house and not allow the response involves an hour long analysis was live that you mentioned mr spencer

that's a citizen does indeed make make a difference what i think about it because i could be perfectly willing as net effect i am perfectly willing to concede that first army as a naturalist a lot of incidents you are the aggressors and that's a mecca for my son of a former friend yeah got it depended on you so never been used on that level but i've seen i've seen so many people get so hung up in such crappy superficial panic things that that for lack of any real estate announced they won't come back and get their state liberty right i love his narration as we know is being rationed because this irrationality that mean

i quite agree with you and there's several reasons for the missouri split inside the iranian led parliament one of the huge and sharon horgan year it ticked off you know you going to go back to a lawyer is going to unknown future and i couldn't do the job well if i couldn't stand to be in the world and i can go by google minute it gives out a small he should have just let him now i love that grow and i wanted children and ira had eight and they will start here and michael you have been an

adult criminal responsibility i want to bring another martin wrote which i could not feed your children that we have close to my father was that sometimes cause they knew then one cannot and on that none of your life you know money and i think that one cannot be responsible for what like i said we're not they belong to do in your life and say like family now janet do you know what your life looks like them and this is what's happening positively and there's like a blackening get naked with a black woman as a night lives of the two of us and with amusement of the planet because you went your way and i've been that way but because of that we're nevertheless

year we met are you in it now doesn't happen despite mcmahon interview michael huey newton he can't make it with and i could be as warm and we don't know we don't know that much about the man and we know what the inmates yemen about being what we've seen this they get the image we don't know anything at all about you know a little bit lives of geneticists and that if it is it was true if it's true that you can extract and it is just a bit to date that was part of the trap and they don't believe that i don't believe that was bob sidell nugent which review which are expected to be back to it and is tackling one which is related to each other we've come to the end of the first part of this two part of the dialogue between mickey and jimmy which of the

total earlier we take in london recently and edited for showing it this time we hope you all will be able to do with this next week and nikki giovanni and james baldwin continue their conversation until next week then this is alice taste of saying goodnight from so let's go back to what you know about that and that's their children all of them so a production of annie at educational broadcasting corporation i think the

problem the series is made possible in part by a grant from i am an interdisciplinary metropolitan fifth and incorporated you're only unknown in new movies it's been